[mythtv-users] Mailing list and a Wiki... and a dessert topping

[Cotter, Paul M.]

Okay, as a newbie who's just built his first myth box, this whole thread
seems like a childish rant.  Since I love ranting and acting like a
child in a public forum, here I go weighing in...

First off, the name... "wiki" - reminds me way too much of "ewok" and
brings to mind silly creatures partying in the trees... Hmmm...  Silly
creatures... Heads in the sky...  Okay, I don't think you're all space
cadets, but it really is a stupid and objectionable name.

Secondly, I don't fully understand Isacc's aversion to adding a link to
Jarod's guide from the mythtv.org site, but mythtv.org is his site and
if he doesn't think it belongs there then it's his choice, so shut up
and move on already.

As a newbie, I went to the "wiki" and found it unusable.
TitlesLikeThese remind me of filelike.ths type of limitations/standards
- stupid and an unreadable mess.  If your intent is to help newbies it
needs some serious work.  Before anyone else says it, I don't like any
of the w!@$'s I've seen out there, it's not just this one.  The problem
with allowing anyone to edit something is that *anyone* can edit it, and
thus mess it up for everyone and decrease the SNR.  Centralization vs.
flexibility is always a trade off, and I'm sure I don't need to go into
too much depth about that here - I think this is too much of an extreme
on the flexibility side.

Unfortunately, I also see copious use of the word "cool" ("Then... fix
it.  That's what's so cool") WRT to the wiki things, both here and
elsewhere on the 'net.  Sadly, I find there tends to be an inverse
relationship between the frequency of the use of the word "cool" and the
referred-to application's usability/usefulness.  I don't see a lot of
people referring to mythtv as "cool", usually more like awesome,
excellent, amazing etc.

There is a need for more specialized HOWTO's, but from what I've seen of
w!@#s I don't think that's the answer.  I don't, unfortunately, know
what the right answer is, but if I find it, I'm not going to call it
"wiki".

I think a mythtv.info site is a good idea, as long as there is some
degree of moderation and coordination with the official documentation
efforts, but I do hate the w!@#.  I think one section for hardware
recommendations and one section for specialized HOWTO's and/or
specialized config files would clear a lot of bandwidth on the mailing
list.

Paul





-----Original Message-----
From: mythtv-users-bounces at mythtv.org
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces at mythtv.org] On Behalf Of John Sturgeon
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 1:36 PM
To: Discussion about mythtv
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Mailing list and a Wiki... and a dessert
topping

Michael J. Sherman wrote:

> Why not just submit patches against the official doc?  You don't see a

> section for all that random jape?  Then create one.  Make a new
> appendix.  Make a new chapter about tuning your hardware.  Whatever.
> This is how open-source software works.  YOU DON'T RUN OFF AND START
> YOUR OWN THING when you don't think something is adequate.  You
> improve what is there.

Michael, I believe that the current MythTV howto/docs are just what they
are, and that's a good thing.  I also think that there is a place for a
wiki.  You might not find it useful, and that's fine, but many of us
find it an excellent way to organize the seemingly innumerable and
sometimes random topics that are of interest that pop up over and over
again on this list.  A wiki is a collaborative effort by the USERS to
support EACHOTHER.

>
> I'm getting fed up, too.  But because nobody is listening to Isaac and

> instead pining for a "wiki".  I'm with Isaac on this one.  Keep all
> the information in one place.

Keeping 'all' the information on one place is impossible.  Would you
(for example) advocate that Jarod shut down his site and turn over his
Fedora Core specific Howto to Isaac?

>
> I've been trying to look through that Wiki that someone set up, and I
> hate it. 

Then... fix it.  That's what's so cool

> Why is everything titled with NamesLikeThis ?  Can't it even deal with

> spaces?  It's very randomly structured, and I certainly don't see how
> it's useful. 

The answer to this is simple.  If you don't see how it is useful, then
you have one of two choices.  1) ignore it, and don't use it.  2) help
fix it, and make it something that you would use.

> Oh, and there's a Guides section, then a HOWTO section.  What's the
> difference? 

Good question.  Why don't you log in and fix it?

> And I click on the first HOWTO (Widescreen) and get a page about
> creating a new page.  I don't want that!  I thought it said it was a
> HOWTO on getting Widescreen displays to work right.  And there are
> sentences on that page like "To create your own templates, add a page
> with a name matching the regex "[a-z]Template$".  Huh?  Yeah, that's
> going to help a newbie figure things out.  I'm sorry, but it all seems

> like a giant step backwards.

It takes more time to gripe about it than to fix it.  The way a wiki
works (or at least works well) is that somebody gets the information up,

then folks go back and continually refine it.

>
> I've been trying to work on a new chapter for the doc on customizing
> themes, but threads like these just take away all my love for MythTV.

How about putting what you have so far up on the wiki, then let the
community refine it.  Once it becomes mature, correct, usable, and
complete, submit it to Isaac for inclusion into the docs?  That way we
can all help you work on your documentation.  Wouldn't it be great to
have multiple eyes looking at it for editing errors, spelling, typos
etc...?

>
> /depressed

/encouraged

--
John Sturgeon <><

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