[mythtv-users] recorded shows
Ray Olszewski
ray at comarre.com
Sun Jan 4 21:25:27 EST 2004
At 08:11 PM 1/4/2004 -0500, Tom Jaeger wrote:
>You do realize that all your arguments are moot as soon as you move to
>non broadcast -- pay services
No I don't. Could you explain why? The rest of what you say below does not
make my interpretation of Betamax "moot", or even incorrect.
>You may be able to record cbs nbc and other tv channels but not off
>cable or direct tv .. Especially PPV HBO MAX etc...
In this context, "able to" is a bit ambiguous ... but I infer that you are
talking about legal rights, not technical capabilities, since we all know
that it is *technically* feasible to record these channels.
As I recall, some of the premium cable services -- HBO, Cinemax, The Movie
Channel -- were in existence at the time of the Betamax decision. Certainly
cable itself was around. And that decision does not seem on its face to
distinguish broadcast from cable-only channels when it says "this record
amply ... supports the District Court's conclusion that home time-shifting
is fair use" and "[o]ne may search the Copyright Act in vain for any sign
that the elected representatives of the millions of people who watch
television every day have made it unlawful to copy a program for later
viewing at home". (If it does, perhaps you could direct me to the relevant
section?)
Or if you have some guide other than Betamax that supports this
distinction, could you reference it?
>The reason you don't see any lawsuits against people making private
>tapes is the companies don't care. Its like J-walking (who cares).
This might appear true from the perspective of 2004 ... but only because
companies have adjusted their business models to 20-year-old case law. I am
old enough to remember the early days of VCRs, and TV networks and
copyright owners back then reacted like the sky was falling. (Of course,
that was when they tried to sell pre-recorded tapes for $70 or so.) And
recall that at about the same time, their audio breathren managed to
"negotiate" such burdensome restrictions on DAT recorders that no consumer
market for DAT ever did develop. Back then, they definitely cared.
You still see, as recently as last year, blather from network execs about
how the ability to fast-forward through commercials with TiVo-like systems
is "stealing" ... I don't remember the individual involved, but he was
quite widely quoted, partly because a reporter asked if leaving the room
during commercials to pee was also "stealing", pretty much leaving the exec
with no sensible answer.
>I am not saying we should not be doing this .... After all I am... I
>even added a DVD-+R to my system
If you are saying something like "We're all breaking the law, even me, but
who cares?" ... well, that is your privelege. Let your conscience be your
guide.
Personally, I don't think I am violating US law by recording shows for my
own later viewing, and I think Isaac has, here on the Myth list, been quite
careful to draw a line between legal and (at least presumptively) illegal
activities, limiting Myth to legal functionality.
(You'll recall that what started this thread was a question about getting a
copy of a missed show. Quite rightly, the only response that specific query
got was immediate dismissal, with the explanation that that sort of show
swapping is almost surely a copyright violation -- the "almost" part just
my acknowledgement that this list is not a discussion among lawyers.)
>All I have been saying is Fair use does not apply to all of us nor to
>all channels. I believe just TV you get off an antenna.
Initially, you seemed to be saying much more than that, including that
"fair use" did NOT cover recording of broadcast, "off an antenna" TV. Sorry
if I (and, it appears, others here) misread you. Even so, I don't know what
you base *this* more limited belief on. I read Betamax to cover, at a
minimum, timeshifting of any channel a subscriber has legal access to view,
as long as the recording is for personal, non-commerical use.
We will probably face new rules for recording of true digital TV, but that
will be because new law will govern that activity. This is what we should
be talking, and worrying, about.
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