[mythtv-users] Feature request. MythVideo folder browser.

Sat May 22 11:16:00 EDT 2004

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Donavan,

~    Wow, I'm baffled by your response. I could be wrong on some
points, but here goes:

Users got irate because of the _way_ developers said "contribute code"
it was rude and unhelpful.

I haven't seen any user get mad that developers haven't implemented
their ideas... By and large, users understand that devs aren't going
to code anything they're not interested in.

The wiki suggestion list was a good idea.  Unfortunately, Isaac has
made it clear that he has no interest in the wiki, so users likely
feel compelled to post suggestions to the user list where he (and the
other devs) will see them.

And we appreciate the work you do when you find user requests
interesting.  However, if no one had bothered making those requests
(and not submitting code), would you have thought of them and worked
on them?  Have you _never_ found a fresh thought in a user request?
.... This is the usefulness of requests.

I think you misread (or I mistyped) why my opinion falls into this
argument.  It has nothing to do with whether the software works.  I
was just trying to say that if users' opinions are (or seem to be)
unwanted by the devs, why should I give ideas on what could make the
software better?  In the opensource community, it's generally assumed
that developers want their project to reach as wide an audience as
possible.  Generally, this is done by feature requests that get worked
on  whenever the developers feel like it (if at all, granted).  If you
don't want my input, I have no steak in this projects' success.  In
that case, why would a user not look for another, more user-oriented
software?  At present, the alternatives to Myth (linux-based) aren't
generally as far along as Myth (which is why I'm here).  However, if
the other projects listen to their users, it's possible that in the
future, they'll surpass Myth.  (This is no kind of threat, just a
prediction.)

In summary, here's what I got from your reply:

Users get pissy when devs don't jump on their requests.  (I haven't
seen evidence of this, but I could have missed something.)

Developers do care about user requests, just not as much as our own
ideas. (Devs don't appear interested in user requests, they nearly
always are responded to with a "send in code and stop bitching" type
of reply.)

Developers will only work on user requests when _they_ feel like it.
(Granted, and that's the way it should be.)

If you don't like Myth, go use something else.  (Of course I could do
that, but I actually _do_ like Myth.  I just take exception to the
attitude of the devs when a user submits a request.)

Oh, and for clarification's sake, _I_ haven't submitted any user
requests, so if I stop using Myth, it won't be because the devs
haven't bent to my will.  It's much more likely it'll be because I'd
rather support a more user-centric project.  For the time being,
though, I plan on sticking with Myth in the hopes things will get better.

Isaac, I agree with you.  This thread has gone on long enough (too
long).  In the interest of letting it die, I won't respond to any
responses to this, regardless of how much I want to.

- --Phill W.

J. Donavan Stanley wrote:

| Phillip Wiggin wrote:
|
|> Why don't you just take a step back and take a pill?  How,
|> precisely, does "we might add it" mean "we're sitting around
|> waiting on requests"? To me, it sounds like "if we have spare
|> time and find your problem interesting, we might look at it".
|> Scratch your own damned itches, and assuming not all the MythTV
|> developers are as cranky as you, maybe (I say MAYBE) someone else
|> will look at feature requests and find something that interests
|> them.
|>
|>
|
| You know, we only start getting cranky when people like you get all
|  indignant when a feature request is met with a reminder that code
| speaks louder than words.
|
|
|
|> Dan, at _no_ point did I say _anything_ about _any_ of the
|> developers "chomoping at the bit waiting for people to demand
|> more of their time". These people aren't "demanding", they're
|> "asking".
|>
|>
| And they simply get told that in all likelihood their request isn't
|  going to be honored unless it's an important issue to a developer.
|
|
|
|> Huzzah for lanugage support!  It's _fantastic_ that someone
|> decided to implement something on their own!  I'm all in favor of
|> it.  The person who implemented it did a wonderful thing by
|> contributing.  However, not all people have the ability to code
|> their desires.
|>
|>
| And those people should get used to not having their desires met.
|
|
|> As to the supposition that users shouldn't show interest in the
|> wider acceptance of a project (by way of feature requests) unless
|> they pay for it... I'm at a loss; I truely am.  What's the
|> problem with someone saying "It sure would be nice if..."?
|>
|>
| Not a thing.   What's the problem with reminding them that's it's
| probably not going to happen?
|
|> I'll tell you what _I_ think the problem is (and this could be
|> way off base).  I think the problem is your bad attitude.  You
|> think that everyone that has an idea for Myth is out to steal
|> _your_ time from you.  If you'd stop to think about it, you might
|> realize that these people have _no_ power over you.  If you don't
|> want to implement someone's ideaa, then don't!  But, what good
|> does it do to discourage user suggestions?
|
| Hell  I reccomended to the wiki folks that they start a user
| requests section (instead of putting user request in the how to
| develop for mythtv section)  so developers could look over it if
| they were bored and looking for something to do.
|
|> You make the users feel like none of the developers cares one
|> whit whether anyone uses this software.. Maybe that's the case.
|> Maybe all the developers are just like you and don't care at all
|> what users want.
|
| We do care, and I personly have worked on user requests in the
| past.   But user requests take a back seat to developer's itches.
| That's just the way it is.
|
|> Maybe they (the developers) want a "good 'ole boy's club" piece
|> of software that's only used by the 8 or 9 devs.  Hell, I don't
|> know.  But you're sure doing a good job of making _me_ think I've
|> no nead of being subscribed to the users list.  If the OPs
|> opinion isn't wanted, why would mine be?  If my opinions aren't
|> even of _interest_ to the developers, obviously the software
|> wasn't meant for me.
|>
|>
| At want point did your opinion factor into whether the software
| work or not?
|
|
|> There are alternatives to MythTV.  I hope you learn to value your
|>  users before they start abandoning Myth in favor of the other
|> projects that just _might_ be a little more welcoming to ideas.
|> (No, not demands... I-D-E-A-S)
|>
|>
| Oh for crying out loud.  Please by all means install Windows, and
| one of the PVR packages and see how they compare.  Then try and
| feed feature requests to *their* dev staff and see where you get.
| You might a "thank you for your input" form letter if you're lucky.
|
|
|
|> I realize this seems a bit confrontational, but you seem to have
|> misconceptions about the non-devs.  They're not your boss,
|> project manager, or even customer.  They're the people that see
|> your work and value it, and they'd like to see it even better so
|> that it becomes even _more_ popular and useful.
|>
|>
| If you're willing to stop using Myth because a developer wouldn't
| implement your feature, and told you as much then you've got
| issues.
|
|> Dan, I really hope you get a reality check and realize we (the
|> users) really do appreciate your work and are on your side.
|
| we (the developers and contributors) thank you.
|
|> We (the users) would like to see other things integrated, but we
|
| As would we (the developers and contributors)  just not necessarily
|  the same things you (the users) would.
|
|> (the users) understand that our suggestions aren't high on your
|> priority list (if even on your list at all... apparently they're
|> not on _your_ list).
|
| Then why do you (the users) get all pissy when we say that's not
| likely your request will be fulfilled unless it's important enough
| to a developer.
|
|> We (the users) accept the fact that you (the devs) won't code on
|> things you don't find interesting or useful to you, we (the
|> users) don't _expect_ you to.
|
| Then why do you (the users) get all pissy when we say that's not
| likely your request will be fulfilled unless it's important enough
| to a developer.
|
|> We (the potential devs) (I'd been giving some thoughts to
|> contributing code myself, before all this nastyness started.) can
|> see your opinions and how you're regarded by them (the users).
|
| Nobody was nasty to any user *until* said users started bitching
| about being told that feature requests without code to back them up
|  are frowned on.
|
|
| Here's the kicker, as I was mowing my lawn I started thinking about
|  how to implement this, as well as another MythVideo related
| request from a use in #mythtv-users and had planned on starting on
| it tonight. _______________________________________________
| mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users at mythtv.org
| http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

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