[mythtv-users] FE upgrade to support 4k TV

Thu Nov 20 12:08:33 UTC 2014

Thanks for the responses. I mostly figured this would be the bulk of it.
Probably will scale this back to a high end 1080p and wait to see what
happens.

On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 7:19 PM, Andre Newman <mythtv-list at dinkum.org.uk>
wrote:

>
> On 17 Nov 2014, at 17:23, Peter Buelow <goballstate at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello, I've been doing some research about this, and want to know what
> people think about migrating to a 4k TV, specifically with respect to Myth.
> Mostly I know there isn't much 4k content yet, but I don't upgrade often,
> so I want to get something that will be relevant for 7-10 years (assuming
> the device lasts that long). I see several threads related to this question
> (some 2 years old), but I can't find anyone who has just asked directly
> about migrating a Myth setup to 4k and what problems and challenges go with
> that. It's a basic FE setup, connected to the TV through a fairly new Onkyo
> receiver (TX-NR616). The receiver claims to support 4k for compat TV's, but
> I haven't verified/tested that yet. I hope I can reuse my current home
> theater setup without a lot of changes.
> >
> > Specific questions.
>
> I work in sports TV, I work on some UHD transmissions, not 4k of course
> that’s a Digital Cinema format but some projectors and some TVs can do 4k
> and UHD, most “4k” TVs are UHDTVs.
> >
> > 1. I keep reading in several threads that 4k decoding might be changing
> before long.
>
> It changed already from 8bit to 10bit, I didn’t see much 10bit until this
> year. BBC said that most equipment didn’t work properly with 10bit so they
> broadcast the World Cup tests in 8bit, Commonwealth Games was 8 bit until
> the last day. Most (all maybe) current TV panels are 8 bit, some are 6 bit
> with FRC.
>
> I see a lot of changes in what the encoder guys produce, everything is
> different, every transmission, every month or two. I find that different TV
> decoders get better or worse with each firmware update and each
> transmission encoder update, big difference between the manufacturers too.
>
> Kodi (sorry) is keeping up quite well but transmissions from today play
> with old nightly builds but not current beta, it’s a difficult thing to
> keep up with. Remux to h265 in mp4 plays ok, 20fps on 2.66Ghz i7 macbook
> pro, was 6fps with alpha 1.
>
> > Is this an h.265 problem? Will changes to specs mean any 4k TV is
> hobbled at best in a year or two?
>
> Probably, all the sports broadcasters are saying that p50 is not enough,
> they want to try p100. None of the current panels can manage more than p60,
> IMO none can really do even p60 yet, Samsung 9000 series is close. This is
> just the frame rate there are other aspects, dynamic range, colour space
> etc.
>
> Where I am working today they have a Sony 900a UHDTV, if you give it a
> modern h265 stream to decode it reboots, Sony say there is no fix, already
> this expensive TV is junk.
>
> Japanese recorded two World Cup games in 8k at 120p, it looks pretty good
> but not much to add over 4k, 120p looks ok not so amazing until you then go
> watch some 60p or 60i and then you realise how good it looked, same effect
> at 1080p120 or 720p120. I have see some 1024x768 at p300 and that looked
> totally stunning, like an open window.
>
> > Or can decoders be upgraded? They said the same thing about HD changing
> and screwing early adopters long ago, but that didn't amount to much that I
> remember.
>
> Ask any early adopter about their UK Sky HD, it stopped working a few
> months ago. Any early HDTV has only component inputs, only the Thompson Sky
> box had component out and Sky don’t allow HD channels on that box any more.
>
> > I see ffmpeg work related to this though, so maybe I don't care?
> > 2. I know Myth on it's own will work fine in 4k,
>
> For H264 4k works now and maybe H265 in software in 0.28?? Maybe, maybe
> not. There are no longer any 4k transmissions in H264, even the old test
> channels have gone. There are 3 channels transmitting FTA in Europe for
> demos and tests, also one encrypted.
>
> > but do I need bleeding edge Nvidia and new cabling for video playback,
>
> Yes, only 970 & 980 cards have HDMI 2.0 but there are very few reports of
> success, even in Windows, Linux I don’t know yet. Maybe I will have one
> soon to test. There are many TVs that say HDMI 2.0 but it’s HDMI 1.4 with
> HDMI 2.0 signalling so there isn’t enough bandwidth for full frame rate, ok
> for 24p movies but nothing else, not even for de-interlaced 1080i, you need
> 50p of 60p for that and full resolution for good scaling quality.
>
> But be warned Nvidia said only partial h265 support in VDPAU you will
> still need a reasonable CPU for H265, Atom is not a reasonable CPU.
>
> > or can I live with my current card/cables and make all video resolutions
> work? The setup is currently a GTX 460, AMD 64 bit something or another (at
> least 5 years old, pry older, see below), and standard HDMI cabling. I
> watch FOTA TV in HD on it streaming (GbE) from a dedicated BE, plus several
> hundred of my movies transcoded using Handbrake for easy access streaming
> from the same BE.
> > 3. I'll transcode any new content to 4k (why not?)
>
> Because it’s crazy, that’s why not, h265 encoding is very hard so takes a
> long time, oss encoding is very poor, closed source encoding is very poor!
> So probably you will end up with a small space saving and a lower quality
> after many days CPU time encoding. My 4Ghz Haswell takes a long while to
> encode...
>
> > if/when Handbrake supports, plus we do a lot of 4k video recording of my
> daughter because our phones/cameras support it, so mostly this effort is to
> support that for now. Will Myth have issues, and will I have to build the
> SW on my own, or should it work out of the box on the latest Fedora using
> yum (rpmfusion built version)?
>
> If it’s h264 and you have fast enough cpu or vdpau with 6xx card then it
> works now, mine does, did last time I looked, 0.27 fixes on Ubuntu.
>
> >
> > My plan is to do a wholesale FE update for new capabilities. My current
> setup is fairly old cause it just works. The only big changes in the last 8
> years are a new Nvidia card and a new flash drive. So I'll do a new
> MB/CPU/RAM/Video(?) but same case (Antec Silver I love). Mostly, I want to
> see if I can't get another 8-10 years with minimal changes like before.
>
> Then you need to wait until the video standard settles out, the REC2020
> proposals cannot be achieved with current display technology, maybe laser
> projection next year, maybe quantum dot or OLED in a few years, maybe never
> and we decide to go to DCI P3 instead.
>
> This not like HD, first HD truck was in Brighton in 1988, I got a tour but
> HD is still not standard yet, UHD development is much quicker and everyone
> is watching, broadcasters know this. One big sports TV hire company I know
> just ordered 20 UHD cameras.
>
>
> > What started this was my wife promised we could buy a new TV for the
> Super Bowl a year ago, so I think I want to go 4k now as it's not that much
> more expensive. Plus, we keep our TV's for a long time. The unit being
> replaced is a 47 inch LG that is almost 8 years old now. And I like the 70"
> Vizio at Costco a lot.
>
> The Vizio’s are pretty crap but the price is ok for those who want to
> play, unless something changed they can’t do 50p or 60p so only movies, no
> sport. You can feed it with 1080p but then there is less benefit.
>
> I find that 55” needs to be viewed from 1m away to see the benefit of the
> extra resolution. I have a 110” projected 1080p screen at home and I’m not
> worried about upgrading anytime soon.
>
> The Sony guys say there is a massive benefit watching on a tablet because
> people hold them close, apparent screen size is better than even 85” TV at
> normal viewing distances.
>
>
> > Samsung had one on display at Best Buy as well that I thought was
> visually outstanding though much more expensive.
>
> The Samsungs are the only ones worth looking at but often you will get a
> better picture on a 1080p set.
>
> >
> > Thanks for any help and suggestions.
>
> There is a Samsung sponsored concert transmitted Wednesday night from
> Munich, if the equipment works properly…
>
> Andre
>
> >
> > --
> > Pete
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-- 
Pete
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