[mythtv-users] Changing from 0.21 to 0.25 using new hardware

PJR pjrobinson at metronet.co.uk
Wed Mar 14 09:56:43 UTC 2012

On 14/03/12 07:39, Nick Rout wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 8:27 PM, PJR <pjrobinson at metronet.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 14/03/12 06:06, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>>> On 03/14/2012 01:15 AM, Nick Rout wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Bob Long wrote:
>>>>> I currently have a reliable 0.21 system (combined FE/BE) running on
>>>>> Ubuntu 8.04. However, it has some hardware limitations (AGP slot, so not
>>>>> able to install PCI-e video for high definition/VDPAU; motherboard does
>>>>> not accept modern larger capacity hard drives; a couple of other things)
>>>>> so I'm looking to build a new combined FE/BE with new hardware.
>>>>> I've done some tests with new hardware with 0.24 and that seems fine.
>>>>> However, would it be better to me to wait for 0.25 to build the real new
>>>>> system? That is, will it be better/easier to build a 0.25 system from
>>>>> scratch rather than try to upgrade from 0.24? There's no rush for the
>>>>> new system, so I can wait if it's better/simpler/more future-proof.
>>>>> And would it also be better to wait for Ubuntu 12.04, rather than use
>>>>> 11.10? Is upgrading from 11.10 to 12.04 likely to break things?
>>>>> Then, with whatever flavour of new system I have built, how to get
>>>>> recordings/schedules etc from the 0.21 system?
>>>>> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.25 says it won't upgrade
>>>>> from before 0.22. But I don't want to try any upgrade on the existing
>>>>> system anyway - I want to keep it running as is.
>>>>> I've read http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_and_Restore but
>>>>> don't really understand if that is applicable in this case. That warns
>>>>> about doing partial restores, but would that process do a full restore
>>>>> of a 0.21 backup anyway? If it did, and as there will be different
>>>>> tuners/channels, etc, would that restore wipe out or break what had been
>>>>> newly configured?
>>>>> Any pointers, or have I just not read things well enough?
>>>> Back up your database using the backup and restore functionality as
>>>> described in the wiki.
>>>> Install 10.04 (LTS) and use mythbuntu-repos to get to 0.24-fixes. Give
>>>> it the same hostname as your old backend, or be prepared to do the
>>>> change of hostname thing as described in the wiki.  Do not configure
>>>> it (ie don't bother with mythtv setup) as you will throw away that
>>>> database. Remove the default  database and restore the one you backed
>>>> up, again as described in the wiki article. The database will get
>>>> updated to 0.24 format when  the backend starts, and some will get
>>>> updated when the frontend starts.
>>>> Then carry on as before until 12.04 (again LTS) is released. Back up
>>>> your database, then try an LTS to LTS upgrade. If that works, you are
>>>> sweet. If it doesn't (yes canonical I am talking to you) then do a
>>>> fresh install of 12.04 and use the backup you made.
>>>> I am assuming you can separate out all your media (recordings, video,
>>>> music etc) so that there is no risks of updates screwing it.
>>> Yeah, you definitely want to go to 0.24-fixes, now--and not try to go
>>> directly from 0.21 to 0.25--since 0.25 can only upgrade the database if
>>> it's on 0.22 or higher schema version.  So, whether you do it now, or
>>> after 12.04 is released, you'll have to upgrade to 0.22+ (my
>>> recommendation is 0.24-fixes) before going to 0.25, anyway.
>>> Mike
>> My recommendation is, it all depends! If you want to keep a running
>> mythtv system then I suggest you build a completely new h/w system, get
>> that running on whatever version you want to upgrade to and when you are
>> satisfied with that then worry about moving across any data from the old
>> to the new system.  If you try to upgrade in situ h/w & s/w you're more
>> than likely to regret it, it is more than likely to fail. I've been
>> running my 'production' 8.10 system for years, never applying any
>> upgrades to it what so ever as it just works, that includes HDMI out to
>> an AV amp, X10 remote, WoL and auto shut down and wake up from RTC. If
>> this system was not to work (say as the result of applying any s/w
>> upgrade) my WAF would hit negative! As a replacement I'm building
>> (trying to!) a completely new system: 525 Atom processor, ION2 GPU, 60GB
>> SSD main disc, 2x 1TB discs in RAID 1 array for myth data storage,
>> mythtv 0.24.*. The first set of discs, WD Caviar Greens failed, they
>> were faulty and are probably not suitable for RAID anyway (by the way,
>> RAID is just a resilience thing, TV recordings can be junked, videos
>> restored for DVD, music restored for CDs). The RAID disc problem took
>> weeks to discover and even longer to choose and get replacements.  The
>> WDs have been replaced by Samsung F3R's and are working very well. Have
>> I got mythbuntu 11.10 (0.24.x) working?  No! It's been, and still is a
>> real battle. I've abandoned XFCE and gone to gnome 3 since the under
>> XFCE the system wouldn't shut down and start reliably, sometimes it
>> wouldn't shut down, sometimes it wouldn't start (plus numerous other
>> little issues all of which meant that it would not be suitable for a
>> 'production' system). The move to gnome 3 has made things better (and I
>> have no idea whether XFCE was the cause of the problems) but the system
>> still won't reliably shut down and start, it will wake from the RTC,
>> sometimes (and WoL) and I've still to get shut down from no user logged
>> in to work. The good side is that it will record TV and that includes HD
>> TV (the original major reason for the upgrade), from the PC nano Stick
>> usb decoder and plays it back using VDPAU to the monitor, I've yet to
>> try the TV via the HDMI connected AV amp but the greyed out sound icon
>> in the panel is not encouraging (however it does 'say' it knows about
>> the HDMI output sound device, do I believe it?)  Is 0.24.x ready (in my
>> case) to run as a production system? Answer, at the moment has to be NO.
>> When I've finally got 0.24 working and run in parallel with my 8.10
>> system then I'll work out how to move the data across and the 0.24
>> system will become the 'production' system - and no updates will be
>> applied to it, hopefully, like the 8.10 system, it will just work!
>> Mythtv is a very impressive system and the developers have to be admired
>> but it does seem to suffer from the 0.x syndrome, which is not a problem
>> as long as people understand that it is an experimental system and not
>> suitable for 'production' work unless it is handled very, very
>> carefully.  Of course others may have different (better) experiences but
>> that's mine so far.  I do have an 'office' ubuntu 10.04 system which has
>> had every update applied to it and it's never failed once. What's my
>> background? I worked as a software engineer for 40 years and have run
>> Linux since kernel 0.9x.  My experience is - be cautious if you're
>> running a production system; if you like solving puzzles, upgrade!
> Given the proximity of 0.25, and your desire to stick to one release,
> you may be better to wait for 0.25.
> Also I am not sure what about 0.24 is not working for you. I didn't
> see any 0.24 errors you mentioned (shutdown errors are OS faults, not
> mythtv)
> 0.24 runs on many production sytems, mine included. I run the
> mythbuntu updates (including the -repo updates to 0,24-fixes)
> regularly and it never breaks.
> I am looking forward to 0.25, but will be careful about how I update.
I agree about shut down not working being an OS not mythtv fault but it
was mythbuntu that I started out with. I also agree about waiting for
0.25, presumably on 12.04 LTS; of course it might take until 0.25 before
I solve the shut down problem on 0.24 anyway!!

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