[mythtv-users] Changing from 0.21 to 0.25 using new hardware

[Nick Rout]

On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 8:27 PM, PJR <pjrobinson at metronet.co.uk> wrote:
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> On 14/03/12 06:06, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>> On 03/14/2012 01:15 AM, Nick Rout wrote:
>>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Bob Long wrote:
>>>> I currently have a reliable 0.21 system (combined FE/BE) running on
>>>> Ubuntu 8.04. However, it has some hardware limitations (AGP slot, so not
>>>> able to install PCI-e video for high definition/VDPAU; motherboard does
>>>> not accept modern larger capacity hard drives; a couple of other things)
>>>> so I'm looking to build a new combined FE/BE with new hardware.
>>>>
>>>> I've done some tests with new hardware with 0.24 and that seems fine.
>>>> However, would it be better to me to wait for 0.25 to build the real new
>>>> system? That is, will it be better/easier to build a 0.25 system from
>>>> scratch rather than try to upgrade from 0.24? There's no rush for the
>>>> new system, so I can wait if it's better/simpler/more future-proof.
>>>>
>>>> And would it also be better to wait for Ubuntu 12.04, rather than use
>>>> 11.10? Is upgrading from 11.10 to 12.04 likely to break things?
>>>>
>>>> Then, with whatever flavour of new system I have built, how to get
>>>> recordings/schedules etc from the 0.21 system?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.25 says it won't upgrade
>>>> from before 0.22. But I don't want to try any upgrade on the existing
>>>> system anyway - I want to keep it running as is.
>>>>
>>>> I've read http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_and_Restore but
>>>> don't really understand if that is applicable in this case. That warns
>>>> about doing partial restores, but would that process do a full restore
>>>> of a 0.21 backup anyway? If it did, and as there will be different
>>>> tuners/channels, etc, would that restore wipe out or break what had been
>>>> newly configured?
>>>>
>>>> Any pointers, or have I just not read things well enough?
>>> Back up your database using the backup and restore functionality as
>>> described in the wiki.
>>>
>>> Install 10.04 (LTS) and use mythbuntu-repos to get to 0.24-fixes. Give
>>> it the same hostname as your old backend, or be prepared to do the
>>> change of hostname thing as described in the wiki.  Do not configure
>>> it (ie don't bother with mythtv setup) as you will throw away that
>>> database. Remove the default  database and restore the one you backed
>>> up, again as described in the wiki article. The database will get
>>> updated to 0.24 format when  the backend starts, and some will get
>>> updated when the frontend starts.
>>>
>>> Then carry on as before until 12.04 (again LTS) is released. Back up
>>> your database, then try an LTS to LTS upgrade. If that works, you are
>>> sweet. If it doesn't (yes canonical I am talking to you) then do a
>>> fresh install of 12.04 and use the backup you made.
>>>
>>> I am assuming you can separate out all your media (recordings, video,
>>> music etc) so that there is no risks of updates screwing it.
>> Yeah, you definitely want to go to 0.24-fixes, now--and not try to go
>> directly from 0.21 to 0.25--since 0.25 can only upgrade the database if
>> it's on 0.22 or higher schema version.  So, whether you do it now, or
>> after 12.04 is released, you'll have to upgrade to 0.22+ (my
>> recommendation is 0.24-fixes) before going to 0.25, anyway.
>>
>> Mike
> My recommendation is, it all depends! If you want to keep a running
> mythtv system then I suggest you build a completely new h/w system, get
> that running on whatever version you want to upgrade to and when you are
> satisfied with that then worry about moving across any data from the old
> to the new system.  If you try to upgrade in situ h/w & s/w you're more
> than likely to regret it, it is more than likely to fail. I've been
> running my 'production' 8.10 system for years, never applying any
> upgrades to it what so ever as it just works, that includes HDMI out to
> an AV amp, X10 remote, WoL and auto shut down and wake up from RTC. If
> this system was not to work (say as the result of applying any s/w
> upgrade) my WAF would hit negative! As a replacement I'm building
> (trying to!) a completely new system: 525 Atom processor, ION2 GPU, 60GB
> SSD main disc, 2x 1TB discs in RAID 1 array for myth data storage,
> mythtv 0.24.*. The first set of discs, WD Caviar Greens failed, they
> were faulty and are probably not suitable for RAID anyway (by the way,
> RAID is just a resilience thing, TV recordings can be junked, videos
> restored for DVD, music restored for CDs). The RAID disc problem took
> weeks to discover and even longer to choose and get replacements.  The
> WDs have been replaced by Samsung F3R's and are working very well. Have
> I got mythbuntu 11.10 (0.24.x) working?  No! It's been, and still is a
> real battle. I've abandoned XFCE and gone to gnome 3 since the under
> XFCE the system wouldn't shut down and start reliably, sometimes it
> wouldn't shut down, sometimes it wouldn't start (plus numerous other
> little issues all of which meant that it would not be suitable for a
> 'production' system). The move to gnome 3 has made things better (and I
> have no idea whether XFCE was the cause of the problems) but the system
> still won't reliably shut down and start, it will wake from the RTC,
> sometimes (and WoL) and I've still to get shut down from no user logged
> in to work. The good side is that it will record TV and that includes HD
> TV (the original major reason for the upgrade), from the PC nano Stick
> usb decoder and plays it back using VDPAU to the monitor, I've yet to
> try the TV via the HDMI connected AV amp but the greyed out sound icon
> in the panel is not encouraging (however it does 'say' it knows about
> the HDMI output sound device, do I believe it?)  Is 0.24.x ready (in my
> case) to run as a production system? Answer, at the moment has to be NO.
> When I've finally got 0.24 working and run in parallel with my 8.10
> system then I'll work out how to move the data across and the 0.24
> system will become the 'production' system - and no updates will be
> applied to it, hopefully, like the 8.10 system, it will just work!
> Mythtv is a very impressive system and the developers have to be admired
> but it does seem to suffer from the 0.x syndrome, which is not a problem
> as long as people understand that it is an experimental system and not
> suitable for 'production' work unless it is handled very, very
> carefully.  Of course others may have different (better) experiences but
> that's mine so far.  I do have an 'office' ubuntu 10.04 system which has
> had every update applied to it and it's never failed once. What's my
> background? I worked as a software engineer for 40 years and have run
> Linux since kernel 0.9x.  My experience is - be cautious if you're
> running a production system; if you like solving puzzles, upgrade!


Given the proximity of 0.25, and your desire to stick to one release,
you may be better to wait for 0.25.

Also I am not sure what about 0.24 is not working for you. I didn't
see any 0.24 errors you mentioned (shutdown errors are OS faults, not
mythtv)

0.24 runs on many production sytems, mine included. I run the
mythbuntu updates (including the -repo updates to 0,24-fixes)
regularly and it never breaks.

I am looking forward to 0.25, but will be careful about how I update.