[mythtv-users] 'End late' ignored when recording LiveTV

Richard peper03 at yahoo.com
Tue Jul 31 15:01:32 UTC 2012

On 31/07/12 00:43, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>>> So, what you're saying is, "the setting which specifies a default value
>>> for the end late when creating a new recording rule isn't applied when
>>> I'm watching Live TV and I hit R to record the rest of the show"?
>> Hi Mike,
>> No, what I'm saying is that the setting *is* being applied but then it
>> is being *explicitly* deactivated in this case, and I don't understand
>> the reasoning.
>> The RecordingRule class automatically sets the end offset member in
>> its constructor.  The method I mentioned in the TVRec class then
>> explicitly sets it to zero.
> AIUI, there are 2 "recordings" involved, here.  When you're watching
> Live TV, the recording /must/ ignore any end late--otherwise, it will
> try to overrecord the show when it ends before switching to the new
> show, which will completely break the Live TV chain (which requires
> non-overlapping recordings).  Therefore, default end late is removed for
> Live TV.  However, when you change that Live TV "virtual recording rule"
> recording to a "normal" recording rule, we have to look up the recording
> based on how it was created originally--as a
> Live-TV-without-default-end-late rule--so we can change it to the proper
> recording group.

Ok.  That makes sense.  If you press 'R' and then continue to watch 
live, 'end late' is going to cause problems with the next programme (if 
you were to press 'R' on *that* programme, you'd potentially be missing 
the start because it was part of the previous file).

Looking at the 'NotifySchedulerOfRecording' method again (or more 
accurately where it's called), it appears that it is only called when 
the user *leaves* LiveTV.  In that case, leaving the 'end late' setting 
alone should work, shouldn't it?  It's now become a proper recording and 
entering LiveTV again should cause the same processing to be done as if 
the recording had been set up as a normal rule in the first place (i.e. 
this tuner is in use, is there another free tuner somewhere?).

I certainly understand that you can end up with several different 
(similar) scenarios that have to be handled differently behind the 
scenes but ideally have the same behaviour from the user's point of view 
(e.g. record and leave vs. record and watch should ideally both honour 
the 'end late' setting but then LiveTV would have to somehow implement 
overlapping recordings transparently).

>>> apply an end late isn't worth the benefit.  Not to mention the fact that
>>> hitting R during Live TV doesn't even work properly, right now--meaning
>>> any time spent on that code would be better spent fixing the brokenness.
>> What else is broken?
> There are tons of reports from users that shows aren't properly moved
> from the Live TV recording group; or that the group is changed properly,
> but as soon as they exit Live TV, the recording ends; or that changing
> channel after hitting R ends or breaks or records the wrong show for the
> recording or ...
> Feel free to browse:  http://code.mythtv.org/trac/report/1

Ok.  I had a similar problem with the Olympics opening ceremony.  I'd 
set up a rule to record it but ended up watching the beginning live 
before going to bed.  LiveTV was already on before it started (on the 
same channel) but when I exited LiveTV the recording stopped.

> (and if you can figure out any of them, and/or fix issues, and/or help
> users figure out mistakes, we'd very much appreciate the help)

I'm certainly happy to help where I can.  The main problem is getting 
enough time to work out the relationships between the classes so that 
you can start to know where to begin with any given problem.  Sometimes 
it's relatively straight-forward, other times you descend into 
abstraction hell :)

I also need to get a proper development environment up and running. 
Doing everything from the command line is do-able but IDE's didn't 
become popular for no reason :)

>>   Apart from the issue I mentioned, I've not noticed any other issues
>> but it would be nice to know before they bite me (or worse, the wife :) )
>> The time required to "fix" it (assuming it's broken, which is why I
>> was asking the in first place) should be less than a minute (basically
>> the time it takes to open tv_rec.cpp, search for the line above and
>> delete it).
> I think if you fix it that way, you'll break Live TV.  TTBOMK, we'd need
> to implement the change to the rule the same way we extend recordings in
> progress.  I may be wrong.  Feel free to prove me wrong with a
> working/well-tested patch.  I'll admit that I haven't traced all the
> code, so my understanding may be completely wrong.  I'd assume if it

I won't get chance for at least a couple of weeks but it's certainly 
something I could play around with just to try to get into the source 
code.  I think it's quite possible that removing that line would break 
something but every time you break something, you learn something.  If 
you can figure out *why* it caused something to break, even better :)

>>> BTW, I mean /anything/ and /everything/--including news and sports and
>>> ...  http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/387302#387302 )
>> I get that too, but there are some programmes I just couldn't create a
>> rule for (e.g. one-offs starring no-one I've ever heard of) but I may
>> still be interested in.  Maybe some sort of bayesian algorithm or the
>> like could be used but that sort of rule doesn't exist yet and would
>> also depend heavily on how much metadata is available.
>> In most cases you could probably argue that these programmes probably
>> aren't *that* important to me and you'd almost certainly be right but
>> if I've started watching something, I usually want to finish watching
>> it too.
> And you think you're more likely to find these programs efficiently by
> tuning in whatever is currently airing and channel surfing than by
> looking at the guide and hitting R (one or more times to create the rule
> type you want)?

No.  They're the sort of programme that even if I'd looked at the guide, 
I still probably wouldn't have chosen to record it but having caught the 
beginning and found it interesting enough to hold my attention, I may 
well decide to watch the rest of it.

Re-reading what I wrote last time, it could sound like I'm looking for 
these programmes.  I'm not.  The stuff I care about is recorded by rules 
but every so often I'll put live TV on whilst I, for example, grab 
something to eat because at that time there's usually something or other 
on that's light entertainment, passes the time, and isn't full of 
adverts.  I probably have other things to do after eating so I don't 
necessarily want to start watching something I've recorded because I 
don't have the time to watch it all the way through (and if I care 
enough about it to have created a rule for it, I'd rather watch it in 
one go).  Occasionally then a programme will be on that I find I'm 
sufficiently interested in it now that I've started, that I'd like to 
see the end of it.  That's when I'll want to hit 'R'.

It's certainly the exception rather than the rule with me but I can 
absolutely understand why one group of people would never want to 
inflict live TV on themselves, whilst another group in different 
circumstances can't see what's wrong with it.  The problem is getting 
the two groups to see it from the other's point of view.

Different strokes and all that :)


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