[mythtv-users] MythTV vs. Windows Media Center

Reynolds, Brian Brian.Reynolds at fiserv.com
Sat Feb 12 07:45:38 UTC 2011


-----Original Message-----
From: mythtv-users-bounces at mythtv.org
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces at mythtv.org] On Behalf Of jedi
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 12:35 AM
To: Discussion about MythTV
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] MythTV vs. Windows Media Center

On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:06:07PM -0600, Reynolds, Brian wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-users-bounces at mythtv.org
> [mailto:mythtv-users-bounces at mythtv.org] On Behalf Of jedi
> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 8:08 PM
> To: Discussion about MythTV
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] MythTV vs. Windows Media Center
> 
> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 07:01:13PM +0000, Richard Morton wrote:
> > On 11 February 2011 16:55, Jacob Mansfield <cyberjacob at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > just my 2p, but sorry guys, I feel I have to say that this is a
> > > completely unfair argument. how can you expect M$'s products to
even
> > > come near the epic-ness of open source.
> > 
> > I think you're basing this on 2 things:
> > 1. People like PVRs being more than just an appliance, more of a
hobby
> > 2. They have the technical ability to work with Myth
> > 
> > MS W MCE and TiVo are reasonable products, they are crippled by
having
> 
>     Tivo is a real appliance and it's the gold standard by which every
> other PVR is measured. MCE is no appliance.
> 
> > to use DRM in their products essentially to support hardware that is
> > plug and play. So to make their products easier to use they forgo
> > tuner solutions and to avoid political or regulatory pressure.
> 
>     No. The problem with MCE is basic architecture. By forcing the use
> of 3rd party speciality appliances rather than just allowing other PCs
> to be extenders, much of MCE's potential value is wasted. 3rd party
> plugins account for a great deal of what MCE has going for it. You can
> also augment MCE with separate apps in a manner similar to what you
can
> do with MythTV.
> 
>     Extender appliances can't take advantage of any of that.
> 
> > 
> > MS W MCE was developed in a fairly short time and as a solution that
> > is easy to use and with now what amounts to a small team as this
isnt
> 
>     Microsoft has had plenty of time to perfect MCE. What counts for
> meagre
> resources at Microsoft is more than what most commercial companies can

> dedicate and certainly more than what volunteer products can muster.
> 
>     As far as being easy goes, I think you are giving MCE more credit
> than it 
> deserves
> 
> > a core or strategic product. Imagine what they could do if they
really
> > tried.
> 
>     That's not really relevant.
> 
> [deletia]
> 
>     I don't think you have much if any experience with MCE and that
you
> will
> likely be disappointed when you do. Perhaps you should just buy a
Tivo.
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Jedi,
> 
> I'm sure I could think of a few phallic references, but that would

    You are really out of your depth here.

> probably be against the "rules" here.  No, I don't have experience
with
> MCE.  I'm going to install it (and Myth) on one or two machines I

    Yet you spout all sorts of propaganda about it as if you actually
have a clue. Perhaps you should get a clue first before spouting
nonsense.

> currently own.  I'll play around with them and even install at least
one
> tuner card that is compatible with one or the other (or both).  I've
> also asked my son if he can borrow a friend's Xbox so I can play with
an
> extender (he doesn't like Xbox, we own a couple of Wii's and a PS3).
> However, I have TONS AND TONS of experience with Windows (since
Windows
> was an infant... think 1.0).  I know that nearly everything in Windows
> can be hacked.  From what I've read, Win MCE will do 99.9% of what I

    That's really where something like MythTV diverges from the
Microsoft
aproach with MCE. Some box running a Myth frontend is the actual Myth 
software as opposed to some 3rd party appliance that may or may not be
up 
to snuff either in terms of hardware or software.

    Nevermind the fact that MCE itself needs tweaks before it's going to
be 
able to offer what you seem to be interested in.

    A number of us use BD rips with MythTV.

> want to do, with those hacks.  However, I have VERY LITTLE experience
> with Linux and/or MythTV.  I am, however, a quick learner and actually

    That seems to apply to MCE as well.

> enjoy learning something new.  I love a challenge.  I'm looking to you
> guys to help me find any benefits to Myth that I haven't already
> considered.  TiVo is already off my list... it doesn't have the
features

    The inability to run a copy of MCE on another PC as an extender is 
probably the main issue. Console hardware may or may not have the
ability
to deal with content that a PC can either handle with sheer brute force
or with better dedicated hardware.

[deletia]
_______________________________________________

"Out of my DEPTH"???  Now, THAT's funny!  I can guarantee you... I don't
have any shortcomings in that department!  :-)

I hope you guys realize how much fun I am having with some of your
replies.  Please realize, I don't take myself so seriously.

Jedi,

I don't understand what you mean by "propaganda".  I've been incorrect
in some of the things I've written, and I've admitted those
inaccuracies.  Granted, I can't write from experience... yet.  However,
all of the information I've written (Besides the admitted inaccuracies)
is from actual test data, Microsoft's documentation, what I've read on
the Myth wiki, and what I've been told here.  Believe me, I appreciate,
all of your (collectively) experiences.

There are a few unknowns to me, and that's why I plan to test both
platforms.  But nothing I've written should elicit the emotional
response that I'm getting from you, Jedi.

If I'm spouting nonsense, please correct me... without being a
condescending dick (oops... I let that one slip).  I'm in a search for
information.  If you really support MythTV, please give me reasons to
WANT to use it... not reasons to shy away from this list.  There is no
reason to be a jerk here.  I'm not threatening you in any way.

>From what I've read in several articles and reviews, you bring up a
legitimate point that the MCE extenders aren't the perfect solution.

Yes, MCE needs some tweaks to accomplish what I want.  However, those
tweaks already exist, have already been tested, cause no harm, cost no
money, and get me where I want to go.  What's wrong with that?  You guys
tout the "open solution" in that it is not controlled by some huge
conglomerate... to be frank, I'm VERY unlikely to EVER re-write your
code... so I am bound by YOUR rules... whether I like them or not.
What's the difference from my perspective?  Well, with Windows there are
literally MILLIONS of users who can give me advice, hacks, etc.  With
Myth... I don't know...  but this list definitely has some very good
participants.

I realize that the extenders can't do everything that the MCE computer
can do.  That's not a big issue for me.  The extenders are CHEAP!  They
will give every bedroom in my house the ability to stream LIVE TV!!!
(and be able to pause/rewind).  On top of that, there are many media
formats that ARE supported.  If I really want those rooms to be able to
view the content, I can always transcode it into a format that is
supported.  I can even automate this so that I don't have to lift a
finger.  I realize that this is also possible in Myth.  I have no
problems with that.

Yep, I assumed that some of you are ripping BD's to get them to play in
Myth.  So what's your point?  I wasn't trying to make this out to be an
advantage for MCE.  Don't get so defensive.  This is SOFTWARE, not the
end of the world.  I don't know if you are involved in developing Myth,
but I *CAN* tell you that developers can't have your attitude.  If you
want to make your product the one that users (or prospective users like
me) prefer... listen their questions, suggestions, criticism, comments,
and praise... and make your product EXCEED THEIR EXPECTATIONS.  Don't
get angry about it, just be the best on the block.  If your product is
the best, the world will beat down your door, begging to PAY you for it!
There is no room for being a jerk here.  If Myth is going to succeed...
and your anti-DRM message is going to gain momentum... you won't do it
by driving people away.

Can we move on, without being hurtful now?


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