[mythtv-users] Terra theme, 24 hour time

Joseph Fry joe at thefrys.com
Sun May 9 05:25:26 UTC 2010

> Well here I am again, having sworn off this list months ago for just this
> kind of self-entitled stuff.  It's worth noting that I resubscribed just so
> that I can address this, and that I'm just as likely to disappear again into
> the ether.  If anyone ever wonders to themselves why a large number of the
> developers don't participate actively in this list, here is a prime example
> of what makes it such a soul-crushing list to read.
>  lol... of course it's easier to alter the theme.  And I probably will.  It
>> just frustrates me that we are taking steps backwards when the clear
>> disadvantage of Mythtv (vs other similar software like XBMC) is it's UI.
> Who is "we?"  Forgive me if you've actually done a lot for Myth that I
> don't know about that entitles you to weigh in on project aims, goals, and
> especially our relative progress.  I know that there are lots of folks out
> there that think merely using MythTV entitles them to full voting rights,
> but I happen to disagree.  I'm of the belief that we're a meritocracy.  The
> more you do, the more priority I tend to give your opinion-- and I know I am
> not alone.  That's not to say that some user suggestions aren't helpful--
> Those phrased in a courteous manner, or which come with acceptable patches,
> are very highly prized-- and few and far between.  Just caterwauling about
> something that is easily changed by the user in XML, or by switching themes,
> is useless.  If the best thing you can think of to start a stubborn eye
> roller of a thread about is the time format of a single theme, then we must
> be in great shape indeed.
>   Our themes need to be fast, flexible, and most importantly user friendly.
>>  Restricting one of the most user friendly themes to a 24hour clock (which
>> requires extra thought for most people) automatically makes MythTV less
>> user
>> friendly by a small degree.
> Ah, "our," the toothless cousin of "we."  I happen to think our themes,
> Terra included, *are* fast, flexible, and user friendly.  Personally, I
> think that the more we put in the hands of the themers, the *more* flexible
> it is, and extrapolating out, the more user friendly it is likely to become
> as people explore the possibilities offered by a flexible theme engine.
>  Though, if it would help, I could remove the user customizable time format
> and leave it entirely to the themer, then it won't be the themer subverting
> Myth's settings.
> I note as someone who easily spends as much time on myth code, bug triage,
> theming, and troubleshooting per week as he does on his paying job that it's
> no fun to take project management and theming advice from someone who has
> not, to the best of my knowledge, contributed any code or themes.  If you're
> not going to contribute code or themes, that's fine, but the least you could
> do is a) realize the MythTV developers are hobbyists too and b) try to avoid
> giving the impression that you think we work for you/you are our supervisor.
>  If we
> You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means.
>  are going to package a theme with mythtv, as a community we need to be
>> sure that the themes represent the quality of the entire product, not just
>> the themer's work.  I am certainly not suggesting that Terra be dropped as
>> an "official" theme, only that it be improved upon.
> There are many, many places where all of the Myth themes could be improved
> upon.  This one, however, is not up for discussion, and it's not a
> democracy.  I bet the author would love some help getting the unthemed
> screens themed, though, how about getting us some patches for that?
>  would a few more pixels really hurt the
>> overall appearance more than this restriction on appearance.
> The author felt that it did.  His word is final when it comes to his own
> work.  See next paragraph for acceptable responses.
>  If there were hundreds of high quality themes to choose from, then I would
>> be all for letting the authors have complete reign over their creations.
>>  But there are only a few "official" themes, lets see that they move
>> forward
>> and not back as they evolve.
> I have an alternate suggestion-- In the time you've taken to loudly
> complain about Terra, you could have read:
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythUI_Theme_Development
> And probably completed your base.xml file.  Then you'd have all the basic
> tools you need to complete your own theme.  How about we get to having
> hundreds of themes instead?  Then you can use words like "we" because your
> opinion will merit consideration.  ;)
> Alternately, you can edit the XML to your heart's content, curse the
> project and/or me personally, and generally lament to your
> friends/family/clergy the state of MythTV, and how great we could have been
> if we only listened to the unsolicited advice of strangers.
> Anyway, I'm back to my secret bomb shelter where I avoid mythtv-users
> fallout.  Any opinions expressed above are my own, and from my personal
> perspective within this project.  I've become quite accustomed to catching
> heat around here, though, that's the price of doing business.  Getting
> things done and moving things forward means disappointing some people.  If
> you are sufficiently disappointed, please feel free to take one of the
> acceptable courses of action outlined above.
I certainly didn't want to suggest that I am unappreciative of anyones
efforts to improve mythtv.  I am admittedly a consumer rather than
contributor of any value and certainly do not want to suggest that mythtv is
not a wonderful product.  I do however feel that I am part of a community,
so when I say we, I mean all of us; we who use it, we who promote it, we who
have contributed in any way shape or form to making mythtv what it is today
and will be tomorrow... we who love it.

My comments, while certainly over stated for such a minor issue, I
reflective only of my appreciation for all of the efforts of this community.
We all, want to see mythtv continue to improve and the community that
surrounds it to thrive.  My comments were only to suggest that I felt  that
a step backward was taken, a very small step.  Perhaps there is more
involved that I was aware of, for example, I had no clue that other
suggestions were proposed and dismissed.  Nor did I know that there was any
serious discussion regarding the issue.  I had noticed that the am/pm were
cut off in previous versions of the theme, and I thought that it detracted
from an otherwise nearly perfect theme.  However I feel that that solution
was not really an improvement... the theme is still nearly perfect, thought
the restriction to 24hr time still feels like a flaw to me... not a serious
flaw, of course, but still a blemish on what is, in my mind, the best theme
that mythtv has to offer.

I would like to apologize for my use of the word lazy... I did not mean to
suggest that the developer was lazy... far from it.  Only that I believed
that the solution could have been better.  I may be wrong about that too, I
don't know enough about the theming to know how flexible or restrictive
mythui is.

Finally, I know this is no democracy, nor do I feel entitled to anything but
my opinion.  I am a grateful consumer of others passion and effort and am
very aware of where I stand in what is, and should be, a meritocracy.  I
only wanted to express my opinion in hopes that I might be heard and
something positive might come from it.

I had my first experience with XBMC last night, and though it is no
replacement for mythfrontend for my needs, its UI certainly did have an
appeal.  I know that mythui and the themes built upon it are only now
starting to come into their own with 0.23, and I am very confident that one
day themes will be created that will outshine the best that XBMC has to
offer... with our without my opinions.

To anyone who was in the least bit offended by my comments.... please accept
my deepest most sincere apologies!  I would never wish to insult, belittle,
or disrespect your efforts be they small or large.  I fell in love with
mythtv .016 and have been a ravenous consumer of it since.  I pray that my
poorly considered words do not harm the project in any way... as that was
most certainly the opposite of their intent!
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