[mythtv-users] MS media center

Chris Petersen lists at forevermore.net
Mon Mar 1 04:51:48 UTC 2010


On 02/28/2010 05:13 PM, Christopher Meredith wrote:

>> How are you not a party to it?  You are either a legit owner of MCE, in
>> which case you accepted the EULA and are accessing the MS data service
>> with an unauthorized piece of software, or you do not own MCE but are
>> still accessing the MS data service with an unauthorized piece of
>> software.  The TOS applies to the data service, NOT MCE.  This is why
>> websites have terms of use -- you are a party to them by using the
>> website, regardless of whether or not you agreed to them, they are
>> posted publicly and it is your responsibility to accept them (IANAL, but
>> I'm pretty sure this has been held up in court enough times to set
>> precedent).
> 
> This is distinction between the so-called "browse-wrap" licences and
> "click-wrap" licensces (both deriving their names from "shrink wrap"
> licences; you know the ones that say "By opening thi package you agree
> to the following terms..."). Browse-wrap licenses are the type that
> you have to look for, usually by a link in the page footer. Click-wrap
> licenses are the ones that pop up and don't let you continue until you
> click "Accept." The rule is that Click-wrap licenses are enforceable
> contracts against the person who "accepts" them, while browse-wrap
> licences are not. In this case, at best, we're dealing with a
> browse-wrap license for a person who does not own MCE and who has not
> accepted its EULA. I say "at best" because in my case, I have not even
> ben officially presented with the EULA and even if I were, I would
> reject it. If I had to "click through" the EULA to get data from the
> MCE servers, it would be a different story.

You're missing the point, though.  You're saying it's not enforceable
(which may or may not be the case -- I'm not a judge), I'm saying that
you *are* party to the data service TOS.  Any person accessing that data
service is.  If you don't personally feel any moral obligation to honor
the TOS, then that's your prerogative.  It's still wrong, and in
violation of what the website owner (Microsoft) intends the service to
be used for.

The other point that you are continuously missing is that because mc2xml
is closed source, you DO NOT KNOW what sort of EULA or TOS or whatever
is being agreed to for you.  For all you know, mc2xml is accessing the
data over a secure connection, impersonating a randomly-generated MCE
installation (which I believe would make it wire fraud, a felony, or at
least be a violation of the DMCA).  You can't know.

I won't continue this discussion (because it's pointless -- you've
already made up your mind about things, and are obviously either so poor
that you can't afford $0.054/day, or so cheap that you put a fictional
Scrooge to shame).  My point was not to argue legality, but morality.
You give users of open source software (and by some extent, its
developers) a bad name by making it easier for large companies to view
us as thieves and (black-hat) hackers.  As one of the founders of SD,
and a long-time MythTV developer, I feel both sorry for and insulted by
such actions.

-Chris

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