[mythtv-users] HD Tuner Cards

Rudy Zijlstra mythtv at edsons.demon.nl
Thu Jan 4 16:34:58 UTC 2007

Yeechang Lee wrote:

>Rudy Zijlstra <mythtv at edsons.demon.nl> says:
>>>I wouldn't count on it. I don't think many Europeans--even those on
>>>this list--appreciate just how far North America is ahead of the
>>>rest of the world in deploying over-the-air, satellite, and
>>The drawback of being first... You get legacy you need to handle.
>Legacy is another way for "What works and works now." There's always
>going to be a more efficient codec. Yes, the MPEG-4 *some* DVB
>variants use is more efficient in terms of bandwidth. Where does one
>draw the line and say "This is good enough?"
its about 8Mbps compared to at least 16Mbps for same quality. And yes, i 
did compare in an operator head-end, where we were playing with H.264 
encoder settings. So somewhat more efficient....

>Let me repeat: North America has had fully-functioning digital
>1920x1080 HDTV (as opposed to Japan's MUSE analog HDTV system; now,
>*that*'s legacy) since the late 1990s. The BBC is still turning the
>ignition key (which is still ahead of most of the rest of Europe),
>Japan is a step ahead of the BBC with ISDB, and Australia is now
>bragging about how most large cities have at least one digital (Not
>necessarily HD!) broadcasting station up and running. Like I said,
>where the US was seven years ago.
In Europe the following deployments active, using H.264:
- several streams on Astra 19.8 / 28.8
  - premiere (several encrypted, none FTA)
  - Sat 1
  - Prosieben
  - National Geo (encrypted)
  - Discovery (encrypted)
all distributed on S2 though, so no MythTv setup yet able to receive 
(its why i have a DVB-S2 tuner on order though...)
  - BBC HD, which can be captured as its DVB-S. I am playing with that 
one, difficult though. So far none of my systems is able to play it.

 - Dutch operators have several channels in H.264 (this goes for most of 
them, and again, most all are encrypted). I expect to be able to record 
these in a few weeks. My setup is now capable of recording it (now the 
subscription). After that i have to build a new frontend to play them 
 - French operators as well
 - German operators have them (encrypted) on cable as well (at least the 
3 major ones)

 - more slow picture, with BBC indeed leading

 - several telco's are able to do it. And probably doing it. For them 
H.264 is a must, as MPEG2 HD is a no-no over xDSL.

>From the MythTV perspective, the advantage is even more skewed toward
>North America. Is there *anyone* outside North America that is
>actually regularly recording HDTV broadcasts on a production MythTV
Me not yet, system building...

>>using that dratted 8-VSB on OTA, yes, sigh.
>(Shades of Bob Miller!) Considering I'm able to pull in every local
>HDTV station in the middle of downtown San Francisco with a US$20
>unamplified indoor antenna without any multipath issues after 30
>seconds of positioning, I'm not going to worry too much about ATSC's
>alleged technical disadvantages.
>>Hmmm.... Possible. There are more big setups though.
>No, believe me, I can pretty much guarantee there is no larger system
>out there. No one else is that crazy.
Do not be too certain on that one.

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