[mythtv-users] Watch TV works, but recording doesn't.

[Nick]

On 8/25/05, Andrew Haigh <andrewhaigh at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Darius Hardy wrote:
> [various edits made to keep things brief]
> > The whole point is that MythTV really needs to know what channel your
> > cable box is showing, it can't do that if it can't control the box.
> 
> I see. So if I feed it (say) a vcr that happens to contain 'x' as its
> input, it won't let me record it. Unless I lie and say it is
> channel/program 'y'. And what happens when the broadcaster doesn't exist
> n the web/gets the data wrong?

If you ever get your NTL channels added to the database (the quickest
way I've found is to add a couple of channels manually, then create an
import SQL script to add them all in one go, including the XMLTV info
and channel numbering) added another channel called VCR or VIDEO which
will not get regular listings, and use that if you want to record
directly from the VCR, using a manually scheduled recording.

If the broadcast info is wrong or incomplete (and happens regularly)
you can revert to manual recordings which will record no matter what.
I find using the UKRT grabber gives me  up to 2 weeks of data for all
channels I have listed (I get radio listings from DVB as the RT
grabber does not supply these.)

I think you also slightly misunderstand the use of XMLTV IDs ("what
happens when the broadcaster doesn't exist n the web"). The XMLTV IDs
are simply internal identifiers that take the format of (but are not
actually) URLs. When using the UK_RT grabber, all program guide info
comes from the BBC and covers _almost all_ NTL channels (I don't have
a list of the missing ones) but all channels I have listed have guide
data). The BBC provides this data and uses its own ID system to
differentiate between channels. The UK_RT grabber maps between these
two ID systems, so you get the data you want from the BBC, and it is
then added to the guide data tables using the XMLTV ID . Whether the
TV company for a particular channel has a web presence is irrelevant.

This is a link to the current list of channels supported by the UK_RT grabber:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/xmltv/xmltv/grab/uk_rt/channel_ids?view=markup

> > MythTV works very well... It just _has_ to be set up first!
> 
> Well, my point is that as a 'consumer', I don't want to know all of that
>   complex stuff. I want it to 'just work'.

MythTV is not (yet) a turnkey consumer application. It is at version
0.18.1. This should give an idea as to what you are getting yourself
into. The fact that MythTV is already so fully featured and stable is
a testament to the many talented developers working on it.

If you want it to 'just work', get Sky+ or wait for NTLs own offering.
XP MCE is another option, but nowhere near as featured.

> 
> > Erm, not with anything like what MythTV gives you, the windows software
> > is a basic VCR, if you want that MythTV is not for you.
> 
> I see no reason why it should not _also_ work as a basic vcr.

It does, but you have to set it up for that (as above). If you want a
basic VCR, you can always just capture directly from the command line
to an MPEG2 file.

> > The basic UK set-up gives you just about everything you need. You have
> > to tell it which channels you're subscribed to but that takes all of
> > about half an hour (you'll need to know the xmltvid names that
> > radiotimes uses for each channel [tv_grab_uk_rt --list-channels] gives
> > you them - they look like URLs.)
> >
> >> I figured I should be able to use it just record the current input
> >> stream - much like a vcr. But it doesn't seem to work that way.
> >>
> > MythTV isn't a VCR, it's a PVR - it relies on knowing what is on and when.
> 
> Ok. I still don't think it should be an essential. But if thats what it
> is then thats what it is.

It should be essential as the whole raison d'etre of MythTV (including
the plugins) is to change the way you consume digital media. If you
just want a basic VCR, you're using the wrong software (however if
you're able to supply a patch that would add this extra functionality
I'm sure it would be welcomed as you're not the first to ask for it!).

> > If you've not set it up properly it won't know which (radiotimes)
> > channel maps to which (in Myth).
> >
> >> Does this give any more clues? Is the 'record' function really
> >> predicated on the channel info being available?
> >>
> > Yes because when you tell it to record it uses the tv-guide to know when
> > the program ends.
> >
> > Once you've got it set up you'll never go back ;-) A few hours fiddling
> > around is really worth it!
> 
> I would say its consumed a lot more than a few hours. And I'm a software
> engineer with a fair bit of linux experience. How many non-software
> engineers get it working?

A lot. Have you read Jarod Wilson's FC-specific guide for a complete
run-through? It seems you also downloaded and compiled most components
separately when using apt-get and atrpms.net would have had everything
installed very simply.

> Finally, thanks to those people who replied, it gives me (some) hope.

Once you are fully up and running, it really is worth it. With a soure
such as NTL where you are controlling an external device from within
MythTV, you need to do some extra legwork, but once it's done you can
forget about it. I'd recommend using something like phpMyAdmin to
access the MythTV DB in case you wantto modify existing channel
information or add new channels as and when NTL do so.

FYI, I am running a Myth system with DVB, analog terrestrial, and NTL
over direct input. I use PVR-350, Nova-T and WinTV PCI cards and use
FC/RHEL systems.

HTH,
Nick