[mythtv-users] ECS LIVA vs ECS LIVA-X

Sat Feb 7 19:06:23 UTC 2015

On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Karl Newman <newmank1 at asme.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Phil Wild <phil at holobyte.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On 7 February 2015 at 00:51, Dave MythTV <dave.mythtv at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 6:11 PM, Karl Newman <newmank1 at asme.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Tom Bongiorno <tbjr at bongohut.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> When considering a frontend only machine, is there any reason to pay
>>>>> the extra $50 for the ECS LIVA-X?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856501007
>>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856501011
>>>>>
>>>>> I have the first version and I use it for watching SD MPEG-2
>>>> recordings over gigabit Ethernet. It has been completely satisfactory and I
>>>> have no performance concerns about it. Others have reported success with HD
>>>> content. There is the caveat that deinterlacing with VAAPI is not as high
>>>> quality as what is possible using VDPAU, but personally I've never noticed
>>>> a problem with deinterlacing. And of course, buying the Liva-X would not
>>>> address that issue anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Karl
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll second this.   I've been using the first generation LIVA (second or
>>> later production batch with the N2807 CPU, not the first-run N2806 batch),
>>> and it has been absolutely flawless as a combined frontend+backend with
>>> multiple HD tuners.   So it should work great as a frontend only machine.
>>>
>>>
>>> The LIVA vs LIVA-X comparison is interesting, as the LIVA-X is more of a
>>> sidestep than an "upgrade".
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------
>>>
>>> LIVA Pros:
>>> * Smaller footprint
>>> * 5V USB power supply (I have mine downwind of a powered USB power bank
>>> as a full-time UPS)
>>> * Almost all connectors are on the rear, for tidier cabling. (EVERYTHING
>>> is on the rear if you use HDMI or USB audio.)
>>> * Slightly lower power consumption
>>> * Theoretically faster for single-threaded applications
>>> * Confirmed working as a MythTV machine by several people here
>>>
>>> LIVA Cons:
>>> * One fewer USB ports
>>> * Taller height
>>> * No VESA mount
>>> * 2GB RAM with no option for more
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------
>>>
>>> LIVA-X Pros:
>>> * Shorter height
>>> * One additional USB 2.0 port
>>> * VESA mount
>>> * Slightly faster CPU (multi-core scores)
>>> * 4GB RAM option (for extra $$)
>>> * mSATA for SSD expansion (internal)
>>>
>>> LIVA-X Cons
>>> * Larger footprint
>>> * Port placement makes for a messier installation (No USB ports on the
>>> back!)
>>> * Slightly higher power consumption
>>> * No longer uses the 5V USB power input
>>> * Theoretically slower for single-threaded applications
>>> * So far untested by anyone as a MythTV machine?
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> In my opinion, ECS sort of missed the mark with the LIVA-X.   The
>>> original LIVA could have been made significantly shorter in height just by
>>> rearranging the ports (there's a LOT of empty space inside)... and combine
>>> that with a retrofit VESA mount adapter and maybe a few extra USB ports,
>>> and it could have been a really solid upgrade.  The LIVA-X is "different",
>>> but with enough tradeoffs for HTPC use that calling it "better" is
>>> subjective.    They sort of did what they had to to bring it to parity
>>> feature-wise with the NUC and BRIX...  not realizing that being
>>> smaller/simpler (and soooo much cheaper) than those was what made the
>>> original LIVA stand out.
>>>
>>> - Dave
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>> My experience with the ECS-LIVA has been less than stellar. It does not
>> compare to my original Zotac ION. Perhaps it is my installation and there
>> are areas to improve. Would love to hear how others have gotten this
>> working properly.
>>
>> My setup:
>>
>> ECS-LIVA running mythbuntu 14.04.1 with mythtv 0.27+fixes and gigabit
>> ethernet connected directly to a 1080p 50" Samsung plasma via HDMI 1.0, no
>> external speaker. No PulseAudio (removed).
>> Frontend only.
>>
>> Problems.
>>
>> 1. Upscaling of SD content does not anti-alias as well as VDPAU. Straight
>> lines have zagged/pixely edges compared to VDPAU
>> 2. My audio drifts (not the recordings) as pausing and playing fixes for
>> a short period.
>> 3. Using Bob2XHW with fallback to single field interlacing seems to stop
>> working after a while in LiveTV (I think it drops between recording
>> changes). I would have to exit out of Live TV and go back in to resolve. I
>> rarely watch LiveTV but will walk past when kids are watching and just see
>> this horrible interlaced video so will exit LiveTV and start it again to
>> fix.
>> 4. When starting playback of a recording, audio level is lower for
>> perhaps 30 seconds and then increases (need to adjust the volume to
>> rectify). This is not all the time, I have to investigate more but wife
>> complains.
>>
>> I found that OpenGL-slim gave better results for the majority of
>> over-the-air SD content (Australia) but would drop frames on other types of
>> content so I reverted back to VAAPI normal.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
> Fixed top-posting. I probably won't be much help to you--mine works
> essentially flawlessly now. However, I'm only watching SD content over VGA
> to an old monitor, and using the analog audio output. I'm using VAAPI. I
> was using HDMI to an analog converter for a while and it was fine, but the
> converter (or more likely the power supply) stopped working intermittently
> so I changed the setup. I haven't had any problems with audio drift. You
> may be able to solve some of your problems by outputting the video at its
> native resolution and letting the TV do the scaling (and deinterlacing if
> you're lucky). I think that setting is under the "Display" setup--a
> checkbox about separate video modes for playback or something like that.
>
> Karl
>
>
>
Phil-

I'm similar to Karl - I'm using the LIVA's analog audio output, connected
direct to my amplifier, but using HDMI for the video to the TV.   No audio
sync or drift issues of any kind for me.   So it must be something with the
HDMI audio subsystem, or the processing of HDMI audio in your TV that is
causing that problem?

For your LiveTV issues, I bet you are hitting this bug:
Ticket #12319: “Switching LiveTV channels breaks VAAPI acceleration“
https://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12319

With the audio that is lower for 30 seconds but then increases, do you
perhaps have the automatic volume limiting (or equivalent rate-of-change
limiting processing) enabled in your TV?  All I can think of is that a
"pop" or sudden presence of sound when starting a program playback is
triggering your TV to drastically drop the volume... and then it slowly
brings the levels back up as it adjusts to the nominal volume of the
programming.   That's a total guess - I don't have any symptoms like that
through the analog audio output on my end...

Hope that helps- Good luck!
- Dave
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