[mythtv-users] HD Resolutions

Steven Adeff adeffs.mythtv at gmail.com
Sat May 7 02:16:41 UTC 2011


On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Andre <mythtv-list at dinkum.org.uk> wrote:
> On 5 May 2011, at 15:58, Steven Adeff wrote:
>> On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 6:59 AM, Andre <mythtv-list at dinkum.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 5 May 2011, at 10:52, Jacob Mansfield wrote:
>>> In tests many viewers find fast camera pans used in sports TV nausea inducing when 720p50 or 60 is used.
>>> Provided there is consideration and understanding of the issues  sports at 50 or 60 frames is vastly better,
>>> especially noticeable on poorer flat screen TVs.
>>
>> Do you have any references for these tests?
>
> I'm sorry I don't, the tests I'm referring to haven't been publicly published.
>
> Sky UK ran some tests with staff & a few other associated people, one of which was a colleague of mine, they covered a selection of sports events in 1080i25 & 720p50 experimentally, just a couple of cameras at most, this was prior to Sky Sports HD launch, it may have actually been 720p60 rather than 720p50, as that format is very rarely supported, especially until a few years ago.
>
> The brief sections I was shown, demonstrated to me a very poor regard for acceptable panning angles and speeds, worse even than is normal for TV production! I feel that is the real reason the 720p tests were not well received, 1080i de-interlace blurring hides the problems caused by inappropriate camera movements. Waving your head about at the rates some sports cameramen use causes nausea too, I've often used this trick to explain the problem to troublesome camera operators and directors :-)
>
> I also participated in a similar test at a well known motor racing organisation where I worked for many years, 1080i was chosen again as most of the production staff preferred the blur that 1080i introduces over the more realistic motion of 720p, Engineering staff were split but certain senior staff preferred 1080i. It was many years later before said organisation switched to HD by which time 1080i had become the expected standard anyway. A further survey happened just before this switch and I was consulted again but there were only three of us out of ~50 who preferred 720p, most European HD channels were already broadcasting in 1080i anyway.
>
> Various tests have been conducted more recently by myself but I seem to be a lone voice as everyone has become accustomed to 1080i. I expect the debate to heat up again as 1080p50 & 1080p60 become possible and practical.
>
> There used to be an interest in more realistic depiction of speed but now everyone has jumped on the HD means film look bandwagon, even in sports.
>
>> I find it hard to imagine
>> that fast camera pans at such a high frame rate would be able to
>> induce nausea where 25/30frames don't. I imagine the issue had more to
>> do with the TV itself not the frame rate (ie LCD's suck at fast
>> motion, thus all the 120hz, 240hz 10E19hz, etc...)
>
> This was in the days of HD CRTs and plasma screens, pre pseudo high frame rate TVs, that may have been a factor but my brief experience working in action computer games suggests it's right.
>
> The motor racing tests were more recent and first viewed on grade 1 HD broadcast monitors, followed by a selection of LCD & Plasma screens. There was no nausea in this test but we were forewarned about this issue.
>
> I'd love to site papers but none of this was published and I don't have the rights to publish the reports I have conducted. I am very surprised that there is nothing available through the EBU, I have asked.
>

cool, very interesting. too bad there were no papers written, I'm
fascinated by the way the eye/mind process images. thanks for the
info!

-- 
Steve
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User:Steveadeff
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