[mythtv-users] Enabling multirec borks usability a bit.

[mugginz]

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 03:47:06 am Michael T. Dean wrote:
> On 04/20/2010 08:28 AM, Simon Waldman wrote:
> >> Those of us who are saying that the current approach is the best
> >> approach for a DVR happen to see the reasons why MythTV can't just
> >> switch inputs automatically.  If it does, it will break recordings.
> > 
> > Having read this argument a number of times - whenever this topic
> > appears on the list - I still don't understand how it is the case. If
> > the user can access a channel by pressing NEXTCARD, then why can't
> > Myth access it for them without the help of this button-press?
> > 
> >> If you don't believe me, write the code yourself--and you'll see.  (Or,
> >> if you don't, when you submit it for review and people tell you all the
> >> problems it causes, then you'll see.)
> > 
> > I'm not a coder, sadly. If you would deign to stoop to the level of a
> > mere mortal luser and explain *why* this would cause problems, I'd be
> > interested :-)
> 
> Individual examples don't give the full picture.  It's the final end
> result in all situations that becomes important.
> 
> The simplest way I can describe it is:
> 
> If you're not the sole owner/user of the physical tuner from the point
> you enter Live TV until you exit Live TV, you're not in control of
> when/if you can change channels and what channels are available.


Where pre-scheduled recordings require the resources in use by LiveTV the 
option of terminating a pre-scheduled recording or terminating the current 
LiveTV content can be presented.


> If
> MythTV just switches the active tuner on you during Live TV, you're
> likely to have some very confusing situations arise.  If other people
> are watching Live TV at the same time, your actions and their actions
> may cause both Live TV users to get stuck on a mux neither cares to
> watch (or cause the other guy to steal control from you even though you
> started watching Live TV first).


Yes, when there isn't sufficient resources to concurrently deal with the most 
complex scenario possible, especially when there are multiple front ends, etc.  
then each of the users with conflicting requirements need to be able to 
negotiate a suitable arrangement amongst themselves.


> Similarly, there will be issues around
> the time when recordings stop/start--remember that you'll see the end of
> the show before recordings stop and you'll likely want to start changing
> channels before the next timeslot's recordings have begun (and,
> therefore, before cards are assigned to the proper muxes).


Indeed, where pre-arranged recordings are to be honored, those watching LiveTV 
may need to relinquish their current content when the said recording requires 
resources currently in use.  Nothing new there.

 
> That's not to say that someone's working on trying to find a better way
> isn't appreciated.  I am, however, saying that there should not be any
> new settings until all of the existing settings related to Live TV and
> multirec and tuning are explored and their interaction--in all
> permutations--is fully understood by the person/people implementing the
> changes.  And, if the person implementing a better solution determines
> that (a properly configured system using) "Browse all channels" isn't
> sufficient, chances are they should either fix that setting or remove it
> in favor of their better approach (and similar for other settings).
> Note that there are a lot of settings involved--probably around 10 or
> more--plus all the capture card/card input configuration stuff in
> "Solution C."
> 
> However, I think a much better stepping stone to improving Live TV for
> everyone would be to try to finish little usability enhancements first
> to try to provide users more visibility into what's possible/available.
> Small, but achievable goals, and all...  Make a bunch of little changes
> to get a huge improvement.  Then, eventually, maybe some of the bigger
> changes will be easier/more acceptable.


It certainly would be unwise to introduce untested/not tested enough code into 
the current production mix.  Thankfully there are ways to make binary packages 
available to those who wish to test modified behavior before it gets unleashed 
into the world after it's been thrashed around for a while.

 
> So, basically, my opinion is if you're sharing a physical tuner, it's
> not Live TV--you're just along for the ride.  I still stand by my
> earlier statement that the proper (and cheapest) solution is to have
> sufficient capture cards for the functionality you desire.
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/428817#428817 and the
> rest of the thread (where people mentioned the cost of capture cards,
> electricity, hard drives, STB rentals and I responded with my point of
> view).  Feel free to use Live TV, but if you don't have enough capture
> devices to always have a physical device available solely for Live TV
> when you want to watch Live TV, you don't have enough capture devices.
> 
> Mike
> _______________________________________________

Clearly you never want to be impeded by hardware constraints you must purchase 
enough hardware to be able to resolve the highest level of complexity that 
will be faced.  Where money allows for this option then that's a very good 
thing.