[mythtv-users] What's appropriate to use/distribute in MythTV

[Jean-Yves Avenard]

Hi

2009/5/21 Robert McNamara <robert.mcnamara at gmail.com>:
>
> When you "asked" about your backport on the dev list way back at the
> beginning of backportfest 2009, you were a) told it was a bad idea,
> and b) asked not to associate it in any way with the project.
> Instead, four months later, we find that the myth users list has
> become the official Jean-Yves backport support forum. Those of us
> providing support on Freenode for official versions of mythTV are
> constantly finding that some patch you have applied makes your
> backport unstable and unpredictable.  When your ticket for your

I would easily argue that, in reference to the VDPAU backport, all
bugs found in it originally existed in trunk except for one occasion.
You couldn't switch channel within the EPG.

All other VDPAU bugs reported have actually always been verified in
the original code in trunk and were corrected as a follow-up.

So under this predicament, I can easily argue that the vdpau backport
helped greatly the vdpau trunk development.

Suddenly the test user base for vdpau greatly increased and it made
mythtv more reliable as a result.

> backport was closed, did you not figure out that further patches that
> are specifically designed for that backport would be ill advised?
> Instead, we find ourselves four months later where you attach a patch
> for your pet project to each ticket you touch.  How do you think this
> makes you look to the people in the position to commit your tickets?

Well, provided you aren't in a position to commit tickets, everything
you write here is hearsay and as you know it's not admissible...

As for me providing a patch for my "pet project", the only one I can
think of is the AC3 upmixer one... All the other patches have been
made in the intention to apply anywhere...


> You can do anything you like, but if you think that anything you
> distribute is a stable version of MythTV any more, you are sorely
> mistaken.  *Please* do not respond with the predictable "Well it's
> working great for me and others."  The *only* version of myth which is
> considered stable by the rest of us is that which exists in -fixes.

I receive a great deal of personal mail, asking me for help and
troubleshooting.
At no stage have I ever seen an issue arising from a modification I
made to 0.21-fixes.
The problem *always* existed elsewhere and could be reproduced with
the original non-patched code.

> If you think that we have not been burdened by your "work," you are
> also mistaken.  I personally have spent *hours* trying to help someone
> with bizarre behaviors of their mythbox because *whoops*, Jean-Yves
> decided to include tickets that he thought were a good idea.  It's
> irritating and I and others are sick of it.  *Nobody cares* if you
> want to be your own personal Myth dev, but *please*, for the love of
> god, set up your own infrastructure and take it there.

Well, what about this ?

Someone complains about an issue in MythTV, ask if he's running any of
my code, if yes dismiss him.

How hard could it be.
Better yet, in the freenode IRC prompt:
Add something like:
Running any VDPAU backport to 0.21 ? don't ask question here...

In reference to you spending "hours" helping one person, was the issue
actually directly related to a patch of mine ?
or did it just exacerbate a problem already existing... I'm yet to be
proven wrong there.

I spent a great deal of time making sure I don't introduce bug, and
obviously it would be very disappointing if that wasn't the case.

> That's fine.  It doesn't mean that you're still not bound by the rules
> of that project when you exist within its ecosystem.  If you want to
> provide support for your unofficial, unstable version of myth, then
> you should set up your own forum and do it there.  Have you given even
> a shred of thought to how you appear to people who are *not* merely
> users of MythTV?  You have ignored *every* request that has been made
> of you by the devs, and only continued to compound it.  Let's look at
> some of the stuff included in your fork of MythTV:

What request ?

>
> - Backport of VDPAU that you were *specifically* asked not to
> distribute and not to associate with this project.

That's not true. I was never asked not to distribute it, just not to
associate it with the mythtv project, which I did. This disclaimer has
always been attached to any of the vdpau backport:

"Please do not bother the various mythtv mailing lists, and do not
lodge bugs in the mythtv TRAC system."


>
> - Optional HD-PVR support - Why in God's name would you distribute
> something that will break people's database and make a clean upgrade
> to .22 impossible?  What upgrade path do you plan to offer those
> people?

HD-PVR support is the most common request I receive by mail, about 2 a day...
I don't have a HD-PVR so I can't help much. But I tried to do as much
as possible, simply compiling what's currently on the mythtv wiki:
http://mythtv.org/wiki/Patch_myth.21-fixes_for_hdpvr_on_Ubuntu_8.10

You will note that the mythtv wiki provide instruction on how to
upgrade and the command to run... I only compiled all the patches into
one for convenience.

None of my binaries support HD-PVR.

As to breaking people's database, I guess you haven't really looked at
the modification made on the database to add HD-PVR support, they are
trivial, and a one-liner in mysql can remove them.


>
> - Various patches which have not been committed which have resulted in
> hours of wasted troubleshooting time in IRC.

As-if ...
You chose to help them, you can only blame yourself for how you decide
to use your time.

And I just don't believe than any of my other patches that I submitted
in trac crashed anyone's machine. period.

>
> How is it you *expect* to be treated, Jean-Yves?  You have ignored and
> overridden several of the core developers, decided that you are better
> equipped to choose what code is ready for inclusion in MythTV, and
> provided 11000 people (last month) with a poison pill that neither
> behaves like stable mythTV nor (in some cases) can it be easily or
> cleanly upgraded to the forthcoming version of MythTV.  Would you like
> me to join in telling you how valuable and important you are?

What are you on about ?
When did I ever ask for approval from anyone... You made it quite
clear a while ago that I was never going to get that.

You have your own theory as how the world is organised and like to
remind people very often
something like
mythtv user < mythtv bug reporter < mythtv patch submitter [< you] <
mythtv developer

And then go on and on on how you made it that high, how you became
close to the "gods" blah blah

It's so amazing that anyone would think like that, so childish that it
leaves me speechless...

Fact is, you're not a mythtv core developer ... so stop talking in
their name... If they had something to say, they will. I've had good
interaction with some of them, and really unlike what you seem to
believe. They are just humans...

> I don't deny that people crave what you're distributing.  I know that
> people are eager to see some of the new features to be found in trunk.
>  Out of those 11,000 people, how many of them have Myth commit access?

who cares who have myth commit access? (and you don't).. I would
assume any mythtv developer would be running trunk, compile it
themselves and run it from there...
Why would they run a pre-compiled distribution.

My only aim has only ever be to make things easier for most. It all
started on something I find useful for my own use... it happens to
suit the need of many: that's just a bonus

>  How many of them feel that your backports and applying of unapproved
> patches is a fantastic idea?  How many of them read the patches that
> are applied?  You sell your packages as though they were a stable
> product.  They're not.  What's more, in a thread having *nothing* to

I never did so... I've always had a big "work-for me" disclaimer.


> do with this topic, you felt the need to passive-aggressively hint at
> comments I have made to you in the past.  So you tell me, what kind of
> community member comes into someone else's house and disrespects their
> rules?  If you come in to my house and I tell you we take our shoes
> off at the door, do you stomp in with your muddy boots because you
> don't agree?  When you're on these lists, you're in someone else's

Ah... I finally see the analogy...
So mythtv user distribution list is *your* house now ...
okay :P

My original comments were mainly aim at you behaving like the cop in
the house, like those tiny fluffy dogs that bark at everything....
And the funny bit , you're not even a developer !


> house.  Is it okay to argue with the rules because you don't like
> them, even though they've been debated a thousand times?  No.  At
> *that's* what open source is about.  It's the freedom to take what you
> want if you don't like it, and do what you will with it.  As they say
> in the song, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.  If
> you stay, you follow the rules of this project.  If you want to be
> respected by the people who presumably you want to commit your work,
> that means learning to work with them and not brush aside their
> opinion.  If you don't agree, that's okay too, but you can't have it
> both ways.  Do it your way, but don't do it here.
>

Look, I submitted all my patches and source code to trac, in the
spirit of open source. Now be they be committed, do I care ? why
should I?
Would I like them to be? of course, it would save me time in the
future as they will never be broken again and need to be modified.


At the end of the day, mythtv is a hobby for everyone and it's obvious
it's considered as such by the core developers.

Now it's unfortunate that because you don't like what I say that you
take the easy approach of me simply unsubscribing
and "be the ecstatic at that concept"...
Censorship is so easy to deal with things isn't it ?