[mythtv-users] X Sartup ?

[Michael T. Dean]

On 02/04/2008 03:19 AM, Dave wrote:
>
>  Michael T. Dean mtdean at thirdcontact.com wrote:
> >
> > With the exception of the very broken/unsupported "no window
> > manager" option, this page has some pretty OK solutions:
> > http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frontend_Auto_Login
> >
> > (And, before people start posting, "It works for me," just because
> > you haven't found what's broken doesn't mean it works.  And,
> > there's no benefit to running without a WM:
> > 
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions#Do_I_really_need_a_window_manager_for_a_frontend_only_box.3F
> >  .)
>
>  You may say that, but there is NO benefit to running a window manager
>  and there is NO focus issues. I've been running a pure frontend for
>  8 months without a window manager. Mythtv doesn't present multiple
>  windows so you never lose focus.


Says someone who has never read the MythTV code.  Really, guys, it's 
300KB of RAM.

>  You can point to all the wiki's you want, but unless you can show me
>  a use case which focus is lost without a windows manager running,
>  then i stand by my statement and so does my wife.

External video players, external games (really, any external app that 
has a window), MythBrowser (or any external browser), a script that pops 
up a window/xterm asking you to insert the DVD for an "offline" video, 
the "Are you sure you want to exit" confirmation dialog and many other 
dialogs throughout MythTV and the plugins (IMDB lookup, ...), and a 
/lot/ more that I don't care to spend my time thinking of.  (Note that 
I'm not saying using any of these once will cause issues, but using any 
of these may cause issues at some time if you don't have a WM.)

So, you can use a cut-down, broken system configuration that provides 
absolutely no benefit, or you can create a fully working system.  There 
are a /lot/ of other cases where, when configuring a system, you could 
choose not to run some program, but doing so has an effect (which you 
may never have seen, but has an effect nonetheless).

Note, also, GNOME and KDE are /not/ window managers--they're (huge) 
desktop environments.  You don't need to run a DE, you /should/ run a 
WM.  RatPoison really only takes 300KB more memory than you would use 
without any running WM.

Really, I couldn't care less whether your system is properly 
configured.  What does bother me is when a user reports a "bug" in 
MythTV that's not a bug, but a misconfiguration of his system due to his 
insistence that "a WM is /not/ required for MythTV."  I'm not accusing 
anyone, specifically, of having done this (so please don't feel offended 
anyone in this thread), but I have seen such reports.  That's why I 
encourage users to run with a proper configuration.

There is /only/ one instance where you should ever choose not to use a 
WM on your MythTV system:  when you're running a dedicated mythbackend 
(i.e. a system that never runs mythfrontend).  I don't even run X on 
either of my backends.

Or, put another way:  You may make all the assumptions you want, but 
until you can point to a real benefit of running without a WM, the 
argument you're making is pointless (and a WM-less configuration is 
nothing more than a placebo).  So, where are the profiling results?  :)

(Really, this post isn't directed toward anyone in particular--even the 
unfortunate user whose post I quoted.  It's simply directed toward 
everyone I've ever seen who encourages other users to run a mythfrontend 
system without WM's.)

Mike