[mythtv-users] PVR-350 - PAL-I Variant, for use in Ireland?

[Lorcan Hamill]

Jon Waite wrote:
>>Can you (or anyone else) clear something up for me?  What 
>>exactly is the most commonly-used broadcast standard in the 
>>UK?  If I'm in England, picking up BBC1 with a rooftop 
>>antenna, is that going to be a PAL-I, PAL-G or PAL-B signal - 
>>and will it be on the VHF or UHF bands?  I'm assuming that 
>>350's sold in the UK will be able to receive that signal, 
>>whatever it is...
> 
> 
> The 'rooftop antenna' signal in the UK is UHF *only*, most TV's sold in the
> UK don't have the ability to tune to VHF signals at all. (As we found out
> when we moved to New Zealand which uses mainly VHF for broadcast TV).

That ties in with my own experience, moving with a UK TV to NTL's
cable service in Dublin, which seems to be using VHF.  I had to buy
a VHF-to-UHF converter box - they come in two versions, ones that don't
last more than 18 months, and ones that give a lousy picture...

I only recently replaced that TV with one bought locally, and am *very*
glad to see the back of those converter boxes.

> As far as I know, all UK broadcast TV is PAL-I format on UHF.

Right, that seems to make sense.

> So (as far as I understand it), you've got a board which will do PAL-G UHF
> and PAL-B VHF tuning. (ie, exactly what I needed/bought to be able to
> receive broadcast TV in New Zealand!).

Looks that way; it's certainly consistent with the list here:

   http://www.datapro.net/techinfo/WorldVideo.html

which includes these entries:

  Country                   -VHF-        -UHF-

  Germany                   PAL-B        PAL-G
  New Zealand               PAL-B        PAL-G

If you remember, I bought this card from a German supplier, so it's
presumably the variant intended for that market.

> Now... If you're NTL cable signal is broadcast in PAL-B over VHF (which
> sounds plausible given your earlier explanations), then you should be able
> to tune to these VHF signals with no problems at all with your current card.

Ah, I think I either explained badly (or wrongly!), or you've
taken me up wrong. The list above has this entry for Ireland:

  Ireland                   PAL-I        PAL-I

i.e. it's PAL-I on both bands.  I think the VHF refers to cable, and the
UHF to broadcast.  That is consistent with the fact that UK TVs *do*
work here, if you're using them with an antenna.  But almost everyone in
Dublin subscribes to NTL cable.

> You will also (probably!) be able to tune to *either* the picture or the
> audio of the UHF channels - ptune-ui.pl is your friend, (but not audio and
> video at the same time) - this is certainly our experience of attempting to
> use PAL-I tuners (TV, kid's TV's, VCR's etc) to receive a PAL-G signal (New
> Zealand broadcast UHF), so I'd imagine the frequency separation between
> audio and video is different between PAL-I and PAL-G and the same would
> apply in reverse (receiving PAL-I with a PAL-G tuner).

I think that still applies - my PAL-G/B card should be able to tune to
either the video or audio, but not both.

> Now, if you got a 'PAL-I' board suitable for reception of UK broadcast TV
> (on UHF only) I've no idea if that also includes a PAL-B VHF tuner - no-one
> in the mainland UK would be able to use it (VHF) for anything so I kinda
> doubt it - which would make it useless to receive your VHF NTL signal.

Well, the same issue could conceivably apply, even given that we're all
on PAL-I; the UK cards could be PAL-I-UHF, and not able to handle
PAL-I-VHF.  But the replies I've seen from Dublin people here suggest
that the UK cards can handle both UHF and VHF, thankfully. It's probably
cheaper for Hauppauge to use tuners that do both bands in all their
cards, and just use two variants, for PAL-I and PAL-G/B.

> So In summary :-
> 
> What you really need is a card with a PAL-B VHF tuner (for your cable
> signal) and PAL-I UHF tuner (for broadcast). If the UK model PVRx50 cards
> include VHF tuners then that's your best bet. If they don't, the only other
> country I can see that uses that combination is Nigeria, wonder if Hauppauge
> make a model for that market ?

Okay, I can see the logic you're following.  But there's another point I
failed to spell out earlier; my cable connection is the *only* source
that I need to support; like most people in Dublin, I don't even *have*
an antenna for broadcast TV.  (NTL have a nice little number going here;
something like 98% of homes in Dublin used to be like that, though I've
seen quite a few satellite dishes around in the last couple of years.
An antenna in Dublin will only reliably pick up the local channels;
if you want UK channels you need either cable or a dish.)

So, all I really need is a PAL-I card capable of handling VHF, and it
seems from other reports that a UK card will do that.

> What you've got is a PAL-B VHF tuner (should be fine for your cable) and a
> PAL-G UHF tuner (no use to you at all if you want to receive both video and
> audio for a broadcast channel).

The PAL-B VHF should give me either audio or video but not both, and
the PAL-G UHF is no use, if my current thinking is correct.

> I've no idea if it's possible to 'tweak' or replace the tuner on the PVRx50
> cards with another one, from what I can see the tuner unit is fairly
> self-contained and would be easy to desolder/resolder, but this is just
> speculation.

Apart from replacing the card with a UK one, it seems that I can either
replace the tuner module or crack it open and replace the ceramic
filters inside.  I might contact these people:

    http://www.poptix.net/ivtv/Jun-2003/msg00042.html

and see if they kept their old PAL-I filters - if I send them
a few dollars via Paypal, they might mail them to me! :)

Thanks for the detailed answer, Jon - sorry for not giving more
information sooner.

Cheers,

Lorcan