[mythtv-users] constant flames against people that are new to the list - can't we all be adults here?

[Jarod C. Wilson]

On Wednesday, Oct 1, 2003, at 22:29 US/Pacific, Tim Harvey wrote:

> I think some of the people on this list need to take some anger
> management courses, or just relax a little bit.

I don't think this is the case at all. I don't get angry, I get 
annoyed. It is annoying as all hell to have the same question asked 
over and over again. There's a dearth of documentation out there that 
half the people asking questions don't bother to read fully, and the 
mailing list archive they never bother to search. Perhaps some very 
clear guidelines should be laid out for everyone wanting to ask a 
question of the list. Maybe a disclaimer when anyone signs up: "Ask a 
question already covered in the docs or the mailing list, expect 
annoyed responses."

> Sometimes people miss things... other times they just don't read every
> detail.

Yes, that's the problem. People don't spend enough of THEIR time 
reading the details, and instead cop out and take up OTHER PEOPLES' 
time getting their question answered. Like someone else said, this is 
not a paid support forum. The onus is on users to read everything 
first, try to figure things out on their own, THEN ask questions. Some 
people just can't seem to figure that out.

> It doesn't help by flaming the hell out of people that are just
> trying to contribute or use the product.

Not flaming. Instructing them on how to better contribute. Actually 
reading the manual and the mailing list archive, then asking questions 
that might help to improve the documentation or product would be far 
more of a contribution than asking the same question someone else asked 
yesterday. Oh, and anyone that thinks something is missing from the 
documentation is ALWAYS welcome to submit a doc patch. I'm now 
contemplating heavily amending section 2 with instructions on what 
people should do before asking questions of the list...

> If it's really painful for people to read the same invalid
> questions/statements... it must be more painful to take the effort to
> flame the senders?

It's for the good of us all. Most people asking all these questions 
won't figure it out unless someone makes it very obvious. These people 
can't even find the answers to questions on their own, so they likely 
aren't going to learn to stop asking the questions on their own.

> Just let them be.

Why, so they never learn, and keep posting the same questions that have 
already been answered?

> Heck, if it really chaps your
> hide, just hit 'next' or skip the thread completely, don't add to the
> bandwidth by flaming.

Again, trying to inform people of the right way to do things, not 
flaming them.

> If these messages are truly disturbing the list, then maybe
> 'mythtv-users' shouldn't be a list.  Perhaps 'users' should be an
> un-moderated forum, and dev/commit should stay a list?

Doesn't sound like the greatest of ideas to me. There are already 
community-created 3rd-party forums elsewhere, some of which are even 
geared toward newbies. Many users actually discuss useful things on the 
users list.

> I'm a newbie to the list/project and thankfully (at least up until now)
> I haven't been flamed.

Congratulations. You're doing better than many. :)

> But heck, I'm scared to death to post also.

You shouldn't be. Just don't ask something that's already been 
answered. Thoroughly read the documentation and search the mailing list 
archive, then ask if you haven't found what you're looking for, and 
chances are, you'll be clear of all possible flaming. Too many people 
just aren't following those steps.

> It shouldn't be that way.  I would think we want a friendly community 
> here.

I've found it very friendly for the most part. Just not highly tolerant 
of people repeatedly asking the same things over and over again that 
have already been covered (have I covered that over and over again yet 
in this message?).

Please note that I'm not trying to be an ass here, I'm merely trying to 
express my point of view (though because of my point of view, some may 
consider me an ass; so be it). These are my personal thoughts, which 
may or may not be shared by everyone. However, I do know that many 
folks are sick of the people that only take, and never give anything 
back...

--Jarod

-- 
Jarod C. Wilson, RHCE

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