[mythtv-users] Recommended graphics card with tv-out?

Tue Aug 5 16:02:35 EDT 2003

Joe - I have probably in general the same video card as Mark (mine's Chaintech, but also a GeForce 4MX440SE, with the nVidia TV out chip).  I also have experience trying to get the Matrox G400 to work, and sold that partially because it was just a pain to use and partially because I could not set the overscan properly without distorting the output from the G400 (I got visible diagonal banding across the picture).

You generally want your TV to overscan a bit but it's probably best not to have your card overscan by quite the same amount - that way you'll get the most picture from the TV signal without the distortion that a non-overscanning NTSC TV will give you.

I set my TV to overscan by about 1/2" (I'm about as scientific as you) in the service menu of my 27" set.  By default, any graphics card I try with this level of TV overscan gives me borders of about 2 inches on all sides.  Obviously, that's a lot for any card to compensate for.  If you have a service menu on your TV, you could probably set the TV to overscan *more*, which would allow you to set the graphics card to overscan less and therefore probably wouldn't run into the problem I had with the G400.  You can basically adjust your TV set to your graphics card rather than the other way around - provided you have a service menu that you can access (check Google for your model number).

With the Matrox card I was manually able to adjust the overscan of each side of the picture, though this was a time-consuming and laborious process and when I finally did get things to a point where I was happy with the overscan level, I had the aforementioned banding issue.

With the GeForce 4, it's much, much simpler.  Everything is basically automatic.  Install the driver, which involves typing one command at the bash prompt, then make a few changes to your XF86Config.  That's it, and TV out will be working even before booting into X, so you can disconnect your monitor completely.  Overscan is set with one simple command in XF86Config.  There is a 10 level range to set the overscan, with decimal settings from 0 to 1.0.  It does not give you the level of configurability that the framebuffer device using the G400 does (you can't adjust each side individually) but for most people this won't be an issue, and if you have an accessible TV service menu it definitely won't be (since you can adjust the picture centering that way).

I have my overscan set to 0.7 and I can see my entire desktop that way, with the exception of maybe 3-4 pixels on the sides and bottom.  The top is actually underscanned by a pixel or two but I can easily fix that in my TV service menu.  If I went to the next level of overscan in the card drivers, the entire picture is overscanned but a little too much for my liking.  Probably not more than most TV's are by default, though.

I would definitely recommend a GeForce 4 card over the G400, if you can afford one (they're cheap as graphics cards go, but I understand you're looking for work right now).  One other thing to consider, though, is the different TV chips in GeForce 4 cards.  There are three that I know of, and I'm not sure which is best.  I have the nVidia chip in my card, and it's great.  Another GeForce 4 I have (in my main PC) has a Philips chip, though, and it's a bit wonky on the TV output until you actually get into X.

Jeff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe V [mailto:joevph at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 2:35 PM
> To: Discussion about mythtv
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Recommended graphics card with tv-out?
> 
> 
> Mark,
> 
> In my quest to find the best TV Out picture, as I'm
> sure you know, I'm exploring different options (I
> know, I'm beating a dead horse here).  My goal is to
> have the picture scale on my TV set, as close to as
> well as my TV displays the incoming cable signal (I
> hate borders).  If a GeForce4 card will do that, I'd
> be willing to get one (as either a little treat, or
> once I get myself a job, depending on the price).
> 
> Anyway, I was wondering how small you can shrink the
> borders to without losing any of the picture (it seems
> that the binary nVidia drivers are half-decent for
> that, so I'm hearing on the list).  Here's what I've
> measured with a ruler (yeah, I know, not quite
> scientific):
> Normal TV: 1/4" border left, right, bottom, 1/8" top
> G400 TV Out:: 1 1/4" left, 1/2" right, 1/2" top, 1/8"
> bottom.
> 
> I think that the normal TV borders are a restriction
> of the TV, where's the G400 borders are a restriction
> of both the TV and the video card.  Up close, the G400
> border matches the color of the TV border, or so it
> seems.
> 
> I was wondering, could you tell me the best you've
> managed to get with your card (should be similar
> across most nVidia cards, assuming they use the same
> TV Out chip)?  Muchly appreciated.
> 
> Anybody else with scan converters or other setups that
> they have working properly are more than invitied to
> chip in.
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe
> 
> --- Mark <fairlane at voyager.net> wrote:
> > I put a disclaimer in the first sentence.  "If your
> > time is worth 
> > something to you.... "
> > If you are unemployed, your time is worth something
> > less than it was, no?
> > 
> > Joe V wrote:
> > 
> > >Mark,
> > >
> > >Like I said, at the moment, I'm currently
> > unemployed,
> > >and have been so for the last two months.  Spending
> > an
> > >extra $45 to get a MythTV box working is not an
> > option
> > >for me right now, considering that I live in
> > >California, and $45 is about 5% of my monthly rent.
> > >
> > >At the moment, I'm trying to build a MythTV box out
> > of
> > >parts that I have lying around my apartment.  I
> > tend
> > >to upgrade a fair amount, so I typically have parts
> > >lying around.
> > >
> > >In addition, should I get this working (which I
> > think
> > >I might be able to), it might save some people $45
> > (if
> > >they, like me, have an older Radeon card lying
> > >around), which they can use to offset the cost of a
> > >hardware MPEG encoder or something.
> > >
> > >I figure there'e no harm in trying.  I'll be buying
> > a
> > >new box to run MythTV on anyway (since I'm finding
> > my
> > >Athlon 1.4 to be a bit sluggish), but I figure that
> > if
> > >I can reuse some of the other hardware, then I
> > don't
> > >have to spend as much money.  Worst case scenario,
> > I
> > >shell out the money for a scan converter (I'd
> > rather
> > >do that than buy yet another video card, as I have
> > two
> > >perfectly good video cards here).  And heck, it's
> > fun,
> > >I get a kick out of solving problems.
> > >
> > >Maybe I lose some time, maybe I don't.  It's quite
> > >simple to get TV Out working at an older ATI
> > Radeon,
> > >and most of the time spent is the computer
> > compiling
> > >stuff.  I start the compile, walk away, and check
> > on
> > >it inbetween innings of the baseball game.  I was
> > >thinking about it, and it might be as simple as
> > >recompiling the X server and Qt, which for me is
> > easy.
> > >
> > >On the other hand, if I was employed right now, I
> > >probably wouldn't be messing with any of this.
> > >
> > >Now then, for the rest of you, if I actually get
> > this
> > >working, without it being completely convoluted
> > (which
> > >I think is possible), I'll post instructions to the
> > >list, and later on, get them on my website.
> > >
> > >-- Joe
> > >
> > >--- Mark <fairlane at voyager.net> wrote:
> > >  
> > >
> > >>I don't know what your time is worth to you, but
> > >>mine is fairly precious.
> > >>With that said, go out and buy a Geforce4 MX440SE
> > >>card w/TVout.
> > >>I got mine from newegg.com, it cost like $45. 
> > >>Install nvidia driver.
> > >>flawless TVout in less than 30 minutes.  Mines' an
> > >>Albatron. Unless you 
> > >>are the type
> > >>that needs to bang your head on a wall to feel
> > like
> > >>you did something,
> > >>then get an ATI or something.
> > >>
> > >>Joe V wrote:
> > >>
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>Myself, I've tried with both a G400 and an
> > >>>All-In-Wonder Radeon (the original R100 series),
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>and
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>have had trouble with both.  There is a kind soul
> > >>>(thanks, Matt) who is assisting me with the G400
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>right
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>now, and there's a possibility that I'll actually
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>get
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>it working.  Hopefully.  :)
> > >>>
> > >>>Somebody else on the list once said, "the Radeons
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>will
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>work, but if you spend more time than $30-$45, go
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>out
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>and buy a GeForce card".  I'd have to agree with
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>this
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>sentiment, even though at the moment I'm
> > unemployed
> > >>>(so my time isn't worth much right now).  I don't
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>have
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>a GeForce card kicking around here, and I'm not
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>going
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>to buy one, but I do have the G400 and Radeon
> > here.
> > >>>
> > >>>As for the Radeon, you can get TV Out to work -
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>it's
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>quite the complicated procedure, and probably
> > won't
> > >>>work too well with many Linux distributions.  You
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>have
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>to install an older distro that has XFree86 4.2,
> > >>>recompile the X Server with the Gatos "devel"
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>branch,
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>and then TV Out will work.  Unfortunately for me,
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>in
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>doing that, and building MythTV, well, MythTV
> > >>>segfaulted right away, definitely because of the
> > >>>rebuilding of the X Server.  (If anybody wants
> > >>>detailed instructions on how I built it, let me
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>know,
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>and I can post them.  After getting TV Out
> > booting
> > >>>with X though, I don't think I can help).
> > >>>
> > >>>If you're going to use a Radeon, expect to have
> > to
> > >>>build everything from source.  I know how to do
> > it,
> > >>>it's just not worth my time.
> > >>>
> > >>>At this point I'm looking at trying to get the
> > G400
> > 
> === message truncated ===
> 
> 
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