[mythtv] OSD timeout settings

[David Engel]

On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 02:04:08AM +0800, Mark Kendall wrote:
> On 15 June 2010 23:21, David Engel <david at istwok.net> wrote:
> > I agree completely. ?I understand the desire, even need, for the
> > themes to control all visual aspects such as fonts so things look
> > right. ?OSD timeouts don't affect the visual appearance of the themes
> > and should be easily configurable without having to edit XML.
> >
> > FWIW, I'm also not thrilled with the change (unless I've misunderstood
> > it) that removes the ability to independently choose the OSD theme. ?I
> > have no problem with a setting that defaults to using the OSD theme
> > provided by the main theme, but why not let the user choose a
> > different OSD theme if they want to?
> 
> For the record, following r25031 (and as subsequently noted in r25094)
> I raised the issue of OSD timeouts on the irc dev channel and asked
> whether they should default to hard coded values, be configurable via
> the OSD settings or configured within the theme. From memory, everyone
> who responded suggested the theme route and Michael's removal of those
> (and other) settings was a response to that discussion.

Admittedly, I should have raised the issue then, but didn't have time
to get into a real-time debate and then forgot about.  That's why I'd
still like to see decisions like this made on the -dev list.

> That said I should point out that I'm largely agnostic about the 2
> issues already raised (timeouts and theme choice). But I do think
> there are broader issues.
> 
> With respect to the timeout settings, how many people would actually
> notice and/or care if the default/fallback theme settings were 5
> seconds in general and, say, 10 seconds for more verbose windows?

I think quite a few would notice.  Heck, even the crappy STBs Time
Warner rents me have a setting to control the OSD timeout.

> Indeed, how many themers would actually bother to change the defaults?

I can't imagine why any themer would want to control the main timeout.
The fade time, maybe, but not the main timeout.

> simplify themeing of the OSD. But why would you want a different look
> and feel for the OSD and the main UI? If I'm at cross purposes to the

For the same reason we have different main UI themes -- differnet
strokes for differnet folks.  Just because I like a particular main UI
theme, it doesn't mean I willd automatically like the corresponding
OSD theme.

> general view, then it's time for me to move on. That was, after all, a
> significant objective of the 'project' I've spent the last 6 months
> working on.
> 
> But if you look forward and anticipate a far richer UI experience from
> MythTV, it is a natural consequence that both issues fall by the
> wayside...
> 
> libmythui already offers the themer several choices to animate widgets
> - changing the colour/alpha, moving, scrolling text, fading in/out
> (etc?). Fading out the OSD windows is nothing more than a special case
> (i.e. a largely hard coded effect) and, as it stands, all these
> effects are themed and operate independently. But (again!) if we
> develop a more generic approach to animation within the theme, as
> suggested on irc, then the themer has the opportunity for a myriad of
> effects. Are we going to legislate for every possible personal
> preference with respect to how those animations will work? I very much
> doubt it.
> 
> and when (not if) we get to the stage that the OSD and UI themes are
> fully merged, then clearly the theme choice is moot. If you take the
> first leap of faith that a new 'video/media' widget is forthcoming for
> libmythui (i.e. a more generic video preview window), you will
> appreciate that the UI library (libmythui) is poking at the bounds of
> the TV library (libmythtv) and that the TV library is already more
> than poking at the bounds of the UI library with the new OSD code. The
> boundary is already blurred and it is a natural progression that at
> some point the two will somehow integrate - the debate is then around
> how and when that happens and, depending on the timescales involved,
> which APIs to support for video acceleration and UI presentation.
> 
> Anyone who has followed my view on future development will know that
> the last comment is loaded but, regardless, I would ask anyone
> involved in MythTV development to try and look beyond what is
> currently available and imagine something better. If the focus is on
> whether 5 seconds is better than 6, I'll probably just cry myself to
> sleep and get a more fulfilling job in the morning.

I think you're taking this way too personally, Mark.  I'm certainly
not, nor do I think anyone else is, denigrating the work you've done
or the ability to use a single, unified theme if you want to.
However, don't be surprised when others don't share the same vision.

This is the first I've heard about the mythui/theme duo taking over
everything, and I must say it gives me pause.  I think everyone agrees
Myth has had too many user configurable options, but I'm very afraid
of this going too far in the other direction where users will have to
desing their own themes to make any UI related changes.

David
-- 
David Engel
david at istwok.net