[mythtv] Mythweb font size and color

[Chris Strom]

On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 10:53:28PM -0800, Chris Petersen wrote:
> >I am not advocating using pixel sizes nor point sizes - they are
> >essentially the same thing.  IIRC Pixel size = point size * dpi / 72.
> >If your system is set to 75 dpi, then pixel size =~ point size.
> >
> >I'm suggesting that the font-size be scaled.  Either by percentage (85%)
> >or em (0.9em).  I believe that there is a bug in IE5.5 that does not
> >render ems correctly in certain cases, so I usually stick with percentage.
> 
> Right.  But what you're saying makes no sense to me.  Browsers' default 
> font sizes are set in points.  So if I say "9pt" or "11px" or "1.75em" 
> or "80%" it still compares that size against the "12pt" that the browser 
> thinks is its default.  When you "zoom" a page, a percentage is applied 
> to that calculated difference.  None the chosen method of portraying the 
> info should have a bearing on the ultimate outcome of the file size. 
> I've never seen a browser work other than this.

Firefox sets the default font size in pixels.  On my laptop (1400x1050
14"), I've got the default font set to 14px.  I do that so that I never
have to strain my eyes to read default font.  That's just the way that I
like it.

9pt is certainly different than 80%.  9pt is 9 pixels high.  On my high
res laptop screen, the font is small and very hard to read.  80%, on the
other hand, is 11px, which is smallish, but still perfectly legible for
me.  It would also work for users with a default font size of 12pt, which
would equate to 9px, which is what is being set in the CSS.


> >I recognize that you are trying to cram a lot of information into a fixed
> >space, so some scaling of the font size is in order.  I just think that
> >scaling with percentages is a more appropriate mechanism than specifying a
> >fixed size.
> 
> But I'm not scaling by percentages.  I want a rather specific font size 
> that matches against images or the rest of the stuff on my screen 
> (outside of the browser window).  For a lot of my stuff, I'd *much* 
> rather that the browser be rendered incapable of changing my font sizes 
> (esp. if I specify pixel sizes).  It doesn't.  Heck, not even all 
> browsers render things the same size when you specify them in pixel 
> heights, esp. if you're comparing normal text with form input fields).

You are trying for pixel perfection, which is simply not possible in web
development.  End users have too many varying systems.  Perhaps they have
high res. displays.  Perhaps they have have settings incorrect.  Perhaps
they have bad eyes.

> When I say 12pt, I mean 12pt.  If I say "100%" but haven't specified a 
> font size, I don't know what size "100%" is in relation to.  What if I'm 
> trying to do something like the search box in mythweb, where I need to 
> match it and some other text against the height of some images -- I 
> don't want to say "100%" and have that be 100% of 24pt.  Each of the 
> units in css was created for certain instances -- I can see how handy it 
> might be to define sets of fonts to be in relation to each other (eg. 
> header at 150%, text at 100%, footnotes at 50%), but in all 
> circumstances, they go back to either the point-size specified in the 
> browser or css defaults, or the pixel size specified in the css.

Each of the units in CSS was meant for a specific purpose.  pt was meant
for print.  px was meant for images or perhaps for fixed res displays
(e.g. TVs)

I agree that ultimately it comes down to a specific pixel size, but how
different that font size is from what the user is used to is what I'm on
about. 

> I just don't see what I can do that would satisfy your desire for a 
> default-small font and still have it work with everyone else.  I specify 
> 9pt because it's small in relation to the default 12pt.  If I specify 
> 75%, it'll still be the same size in your browser as it is at 9pt.  I'm 
> not about to go leaving out a global font size, since I want a specific 
> look (12pt or so for default), and many IE browsers are defaulted to 
> 14pt which is just huge.

75% would be a tad small for me (10.5px), but I could deal with that.  9px
is just too small on my display.  For those users whose display defaults
to 14pt (like mine), don't you feel that making the font size 9pt is to
big a difference from what they are used to?  That 65% smaller than what
they are used to reading.

I don't know how you feel about Jakob Nielson, but you might check out:

  o Let Users Control Font Size
    http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20020819.html
    See the very bottom section entitled, "Readability Guidelines for
    Websites"

  o Top Ten Mistakes in Web Design
    http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9605.html
    See #5.

Sorry to be a pain about this - I do appreciate your taking the time to
address my concerns.  Ultimately, if you do opt to stick with 9pt, I'll
just have to submit a theme of my own, which we could entitle, "For Old
Farts" :)

-Chris