Thanks. That makes good sense.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Michael T. Dean <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mtdean@thirdcontact.com">mtdean@thirdcontact.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="im"> On 08/24/2010 02:51 PM, Mark wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Mark Hutchinson wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Good point yes.<br>
What might some good options be for small frontend machines be that can be turned off and on easily? I plan to have the frontends all in the basement as I have 3 CAT 6 cables run to each TV. 2 cat6 for HDMI and the 3rd for a remote or kb/mouse.<br>
Does suspend work for this? How would they be woken up?<br>
<br>
Thanks for the thoughts.<br>
</blockquote>
have you considered mini-ITX atom boards for local frontends? They are very small and make no noise.<br>
<br>
Remote pc's and long wires are a pain, in case you have'nt played with that yet...<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
OK, I'm not going to recommend any specific system. Normally, I wouldn't even reply, but I'd just like to inject a bit of non-marketing reality into the thread.<br>
<br>
Note, also, in the interest of full disclosure, I am a /confirmed/ Atom-hater. I have a huge and deep bias against Atom. (For some reason, I feel a computer should be able to compute.)<br>
<br>
That said, low-power doesn't have to mean a toy. See what proper design of a real computer system can do (whether you do it or Apple does):<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html" target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html</a><br>
<a href="http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3468" target="_blank">http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3468</a><br>
<br>
(10W idle and 85W max power consumption) and if you figure you'd be using VDPAU for decoding /when VDPAU works with the stream you're decoding/, you'd be running at close to that idle 10W even when decoding, for example, h.264 video. The big difference, however, is that you actually have computing power in reserve when you need it (for Flash or video that doesn't meet the codec, profile, bitrate, and deinterlacing limitations of VDPAU or whatever other proprietary problems we can't solve).<br>
<br>
Now, even if an ION system ran at 0W, and we assume the Mac Mini is running at close to idle when using VDPAU decode, that's a typical savings of only about 10W. And, if you're shutting down your frontend when not in use, the difference between an Atom-based toy and a real computer in power usage is not a lot. The difference in performance/limitations, however...<br>
<br>
To put some numbers to it, let's use the preposterous assumption that an ION system runs at 0W under full load and the Mac Mini (or a system designed like it) runs at the full 85W all the time (under load or idle). Further, let's say you shut down your frontends when not in use (as recommended above) and you use them for about 2hrs/day. That means that the Mini is using 85W * 2hr (= 170Wh) per day. That's 5100Wh/mo = 5.1kWh/mo. Assume a national average retail price of $0.12/kWh ( <a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html" target="_blank">http://www.eia.doe.gov/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html</a> ), that's $0.612 per month to run the Mac Mini/$0.612 saved by running an Atom system. Now, when you factor in the actual power usage (which will nearly always be less than--and likely /significantly/ less than--the 85W max), the Atom-based systems may not make much sense. Basically, it comes down to some price between $0.0012/hr (at 10W consumption) to $0.0102/hr (at 85W consumption) to run the Mini--meaning the maximum savings you could get from running an Atom-based system is a penny an hour.<br>
<br>
Basically, the saving from dropping your computer power usage from 170W to 85W is /much/ more important than the savings from dropping your computer power usage from 85W to 42.5W (even though in both cases, the power usage was halved). When you get down to dropping from, say, 20W to 10W, there's not much savings involved. (It's the same as fuel efficiency--trading your 10mpg vehicle for a 20mpg vehicle is much more beneficial than trading your 20mpg vehicle for a 40mpg vehicle.)<br>
<br>
See, also, these (old) articles:<br>
<a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/25w-performance-pc,2551.html" target="_blank">http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/25w-performance-pc,2551.html</a><br>
<a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-e7200-g31,2039.html" target="_blank">http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-e7200-g31,2039.html</a><br>
<a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-atom-efficiency,2069.html" target="_blank">http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-atom-efficiency,2069.html</a><br>
<br>
I'm sure that there are newer articles using newer chips/architectures that do even better. IMHO, Atom is a marketing ploy that allows Intel to charge significantly more while providing no advantages and only disadvantages.<br>
<br>
OK, sorry. I'm stepping down off my soap box, now. I won't reply to this thread as I'm not trying to start a big war with Atom fans. So, if some Atom fanatic needs to get the last word, feel free to reply, and I won't dispute anything you say. If this post doesn't stand on its own, maybe it will at least get some people to think a little deeper about the issues--dig down beneath the marketing.<br>
<br>
Good luck with your new setup, and I hope you find a way to reduce power consumption without losing capability. And I'll reiterate that the /best/ way to do so is to shut down systems when not in use.<br>
<br>
Mike<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>