<div dir="ltr"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2008/7/29 Andrew Williams <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:andy@tensixtyone.com">andy@tensixtyone.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
2008/7/28 Ian Clark <<a href="mailto:mrrooster@gmail.com">mrrooster@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
[snip me]<br>
<br>
</div>First, I want to just say "not this again", it seems this discussion<br>
regarding Virgin/NTL pops up every few months.<br>
</blockquote><div><br>Meh, that's the nature of discussion lists and the net in general I think.<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
Virgin still offer analog services on some networks throughout the UK,<br>
they are in the process of upgrading the remaning customers and<br>
shutting it down. I think only one area will keep it's analog service<br>
due its very ropey cabling.<br>
</blockquote><div><br>I think that's the section I'm on unfortunatly. :((( <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
Just because it's analog and it doesn't require any extra equipment<br>
doesn't mean it's not "theft of services", some of the dvb multiplexes<br>
on VM's network an't encrypted but it doesnt mean you can just hook up<br>
a DVB card without a subscription. </blockquote><div><br>Just to make this clear, I have a VM subscription.<br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
It's almost along the same lines of the open Wifi argument, the signals are on my property and open so why can't I use them legally? Again, theft of services.</blockquote><div><br>Which, as you don't require a radio licence to use wifi is actually a fair argument. The transmission medium by it's nature is unsecure (ie, you can receive the RF) so if you're incapable of securing the data transmitted on it then there should be no legal barrier to it's use. Unfortunatly recent precedents in the UK have been set which mean this isn't the case.<br>
<br>Imagine you owned a field, with no gate, and had no signage indicating access was forbidden, upto very recently I would be able to cross that field with legal impunity. (well, I could be done for criminal damage should I have caused any but not for tresspass.) I think unsecured wifi is quite like this. If you're unable to adequatly secure it then that's not my problem. (Ignorance is not a defence after all). Of course the second you add encryption, even if the password was just 'password' this would be competely different.<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
<br>
Like Nick said, they own the cable into your house and all the related<br>
kit, just because it's on your land doesn't give you automatic<br>
ownership. You can still call VM and tell them to remove their cabling<br>
and boxes and they'll have to by law, as essentially you give them<br>
permission to store their equiment in your house. </blockquote><div><br>If you've not signed an agreement with VM then how does that work.<br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Check the VM T&Cs for the details.</blockquote><div><br>The discussion here was about people using the VM cable to receive OTA RF signals in cases where they didn't have a VM subscription and hence weren't bound by those T and Cs, so wouldn't be liable for a breach of contract since they'd not <br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Again, IANAL.<br>
<font color="#888888"></font></blockquote><div><br>Indeed, neither am I. :)<br><br>I've just fired off an email to VM askiing them, so assuming I get a response I'll post it here. :)<br><br>Ian<br><br></div></div>
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