[mythtv-users] What's the deal with Kodi?

[Gordon McCrae]

On 21/05/15 12:04, Brian J. Murrell wrote:
> On Wed, 2015-05-20 at 21:51 +0100, Gordon McCrae wrote:
>> Hmm, can you expand on "enumerate shows", this isn't something I've
>> noticed, and as my wife is the only one using LiveTV, perhaps something
>> I wouldn't notice until she goes to use it. If you can explain where
>> this happens and what the symptoms are I can check if I'm seeing that issue.
> Just the lag between choosing the PVR plugin and actually seeing a list
> of shows you can watch.  Presumably it's spending that time loading the
> data from MythBE.
OK, I don't get that at all, so I suggest your specific setup is causing 
the slowness (or mine is causing "fastness"?).

If I'm understanding you correctly, I select "Live TV / Recordings", 
then I choose "Default", "Horizon", "Horizon - Volcano Hell" ..... and 
the video starts immediately. No delays were experienced at all.

If I try "Live TV / Channels", I'm immediately presented with a list of 
channels to pick from, selecting one of them brings up live video in 
under a second, watching the MythTV logs shows that it's mostly the 
tuning that is taking the time.

If I try "LiveTV / Guide", I'm immediately presented with a TV guide 
with channels 1-8 shown over a 3 hour period and a moving bar 
representing the current time to show me what programmes have already 
started. If I select one of the programmes currently running, then I am 
asked if I want to "Switch" to that programme or to "Record" it.

So no-where in either live or recorded media from my MythTV backend do I 
see ANY delays.

>> I think your complains about plugins it a little harsh,
> You are entitled to your opinion of course.
>
>>   after all, each
>> is written by a different developer and there would need to be some sort
>> of central management of plugins to get the type of functionality you're
>> looking for.
> Yes.  Of course there would be!  It is indeed a lacking in the general
> architecture of Kodi and it's plugin framework.  All (i.e. Video)
> plugins should contribute a standardized format of metadata about the
> shows it can show the user to a service which then provides that
> information to the user in a single standard interface.
>
> The whole idea of having to play content by plugin is arcane and does
> not scale.  Pretty soon you have a pen and paper beside the remote to
> jot down which plugin you need to use to watch each show.
Fair enough, as the MythTV developers have been known to put it, why not 
get involved and submit code of your own etc. What you're highlighting 
isn't a fault in KODI but a feature that hasn't been implemented / 
designed etc. It seems pointless saying that KODI is rubbish because you 
don't like the way the project is run. While I agree that it would be 
better to have this sort of framework, I also recognise that putting 
that framework in place is not a trivial challenge, and more so, it is 
even more difficult to go back and implement after the fact.
>> It's a bit like
>> complaining that NetFlix, Hulu, Amazon, BBC iPlayer etc all have
>> different interfaces to their on-demand video systems,
> Absolutely!  That's another example of the exact same fragmentation
> mess.  "Hrm, do I watch 'The Good Wife' on Netflix, or is it Hulu, or
> Amazon?  Arrrggghh!".
I'm beginning to think you're not seeing the point I'm trying to make, 
i.e. you're absolutely right, these would all be nice features, as would 
loads of other things. The question is whether it's something that KODI 
doesn't do that something else does.

So for example, in both KODI and MythFrontend, I can't say "Watch 
Horizon" and have KODI/MythFrontend work out that there's an episode of 
Horizon on BBC iPlayer that I don't have recorded, and prompt me to go 
watch it. In fact I can't even get MythNetvision to watch BBC iPlayer 
properly, I need to open a browser and watch it that way. In your model 
there would just be a single screen that listed Horizon episodes and 
then worked out where to get each video for me. Whilst this would be a 
very interesting / nice feature, it doesn't currently exist anywhere as 
far as I'm aware, so why specifically complain that it's a failing in KODI?

At the end of the day, everyone is going to have their favourite 
frontend, backend etc. just as they have their favourite Linux 
distributions, but that doesn't make any of those preferences actually 
better than any other. There will be some features that are better in 
KODI, some better in MyhFrontend, some better in SageTV etc.
>> it's not very realistic to think they'd actually do it
> Not for technical insurmountabilities at least.  It's very technically
> doable.  But my (admittedly limited) experience is that the main Kodi
> development team is a team of technical people (well duh!) making
> something for technical people to use and not really considering the
> general nontechnical entertainment consumer.
That is one point where I have to abandon my attempts to be constructive 
in this conversation, I'm simply sick and tired of people making 
assumptions about the goals/desires/motivations of groups of people 
developing software that we use. The same gets thrown at the MythTV 
developers because they have certain points they will not budge on that 
some people find infuriating, MythMusic is the most obvious one that 
comes to mind. Simply put, unless you're part of a particular 
development team, be that MythTV or KODI, then don't try to second guess 
their motivations, who says they target their software at technical 
people, is that published anywhere, or just something you THINK is 
happening? As far as I'm aware, both the KODI and MythTV development 
teams work very hard at making their systems easy to use, configure, and 
manage by non technical users, and the plethora of non techies coming 
onto this mailing list saying "I'm new to Linux and MythTV" who still 
manage to get it all working supports that.
> Just look at the disconnect between the watch and delete functions.
> Without a plugin, after you watch something you have to navigate to a
> completely different function (file management) to delete what you just
> watched.  That they even call it "file management" demonstrates how
> disconnected from the average media consuming grandma they seem to be.
>
> The attitude when I asked about that disconnect was "but why would you
> ever want to delete anything?" as if everyone has petabytes of storage
> that they can just pile up episode after episode of television show that
> they will never ever watch again.
Again, where do you see this? I just went into LiveTV / Recordings, 
found a recording I wanted to delete, pressed the "Delete" button on the 
keyboard and get the "Confirm Delete" dialog box.

If you're talking about "Videos" as opposed to the MythTV integration, 
then I can go into "MOVIES", find the video I want to delete and again 
simply press "Delete" to get the "Confirm Delete" dialog box.


>
> And the disconnect between local media and streaming (i.e. most
> plugins).  Again, I have to think about where some content is before I
> can decide how I will ask Kodi to show it to me.
Again, if you can find anywhere else that this has successfully been 
resolved then please point it out, otherwise you're talking about a 
"feature" that you'd like to see rather than an actual failing in either 
KODI or MythFrontend.
> Probably nothing demonstrates Kodi's low usability more than the fact
> that if I have it running on any of the PVR FEs around here, I make sure
> that I switch them all back to MythFE before I go out of town, so that
> the family can continue to use the PVRs while I am gone and I don't get
> a constant stream of "how do I watch ..." questions.
I suspect that actually reflects your current configuration rather than 
any failings in a particular piece of software, as I've mentioned above, 
all of the problems you are experiencing simply don't happen on my 
systems, and the Delete option that you seem to be missing is present on 
mine, I would therefore suggest you review your setup/configuration 
before you start bad mouthing a piece of software. Or you could do what 
I'm currently doing, and have KODI as an option on the MythFrontend menu 
so that by default it's a MythTV system, but you can switch to KODI if 
you so choose.
> That all said, I think Kodi is definitely more flashy and pretty than
> MythFE but the lure of that only lasts so long when the usability is so
> low.
Oddly, that is the last thing I'm personally looking for, the one thing 
I prefer about MythFrontend is that it is a simpler interface when using 
a remote, while KODI has lots of extras that really need a keyboard, and 
sometimes even a mouse to work well. My own User interface design 
preference is for less flash and more functionality, simpler remotes 
with fewer buttons etc.

I'm afraid my patience trying to constructively answer points in this 
email thread is waning, I think I'm done. If you genuinely would like to 
resolve some of the issues you've seen, then certainly reply, otherwise 
please let us just leave this subject alone.
> b.
>
>
Cheers
Gordon