[mythtv-users] Schedules Direct JSON service on the back burner?

R. G. Newbury newbury at mandamus.org
Thu Oct 16 14:56:09 UTC 2014


On 15/10/14 05:23 PM, Thomas Mashos wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 1:19 PM, R. G. Newbury <newbury at mandamus.org> wrote:
>> On 15/10/14 02:16 PM, Thomas Mashos wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Joseph Fry <joe at thefrys.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have noticed that almost all of the discussion on this list has related
>>>> to
>>>> the RobertE's XMLTV adaptation to SD's new JSON service... which seems
>>>> like
>>>> more of a workaround than anything.
>>>>
>>>> Is anyone actually using the JSON service, is there any effort to move
>>>> things in that direction?  It really does seem like the better solution,
>>>> though I suspect that we will ultimately need database changes, and
>>>> perhaps
>>>> some changes to mythtv-setup (or whatever is to replace it) to manage our
>>>> lineups.
>>>>
>>>> While I suspect that I will have to use the XML solution come Nov 1st, I
>>>> fear it's simply because adjusting things to support the JSON data isn't
>>>> getting the attention it deserves.  I know RobertK has a script for the
>>>> JSON
>>>> service, but haven't seen any real discussion from folks testing it...
>>>> thus
>>>> I am not sure I will be comfortable going that route come Nov1.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Moving to the JSON service has a few challenges.
>>>
>>> 1) It requires a JSON grabber. Now IIRC Robert does have a JSON
>>> grabber, but I believe that the idea is to move to using the JSON
>>> service via XMLTV (so there is a single codebase for updating guide
>>> data in MythTV). This requires more work.
>>>
>>> 2) Using the JSON service (and thus the JSON grabber) requires more
>>> user interaction than using the XML DD replacement service. Most agree
>>> that while the JSON grabber is preferred, it's not ideal to require
>>> the user to do the amount of work required for the JSON change during
>>> a minor upgrade (a more natural time for this change would be the
>>> upgrade from 0.27 to 0.28). IIRC, we cannot do a zero impact upgrade
>>> for a user and move them to the JSON service, it will require that
>>> they setup the new grabber.
>>
>>
>> The JSON service and grabber are still there and working well. The only
>> 'user interaction' required is during setup. There are the same number of
>> steps as in an original mythtv setup, only some are done in mythtv and some
>> with the sd-utility.
>> Thereafter, the JSON grabber runs in background without intervention.
>>

>>
> While I agree with most of this, my point was that users will update
> from packages on a fixes branch and expect not a lot is required of
> them to get what are essentially bug fixes (eg. no new features).

Well those who update to 27.4 will get the fix without further work. 
Those who do not wish to update will have to do something.

> While the move to the JSON grabber is one that is done a single time,
> it does require the user to go forth and actually do that setup.

If you don't want to actually do anything to your box to keep it running 
mythtv, replace it with a Tivo.

> Further, somehow we must notify the user to go and do this setup.
> While some users may be confused about the amount of work that needs
> to be done, let me clarify that I am not confused about the minor
> setup work users must do, I just disagree with making them do that
> work at any point other than a major MythTV version upgrade (eg. 0.27
> -> 0.28).

The Stones gave some cogent advice 45 years ago:
You can't always get what you want

And Steve Stills played pyschologist with the problem a year or so later:
Love the one you're with.


> The Mythbuntu team provides daily builds of the fixes branches for
> various releases of Mythbuntu (see http://www.mythbuntu.org/repos ).
> The fix was released to MythTV 0.27 today and Mythbuntu had builds
> available for users within hours of that fix. That means that 90%+
> (not counting those who build from source) of the users have the fix
> available to them (although it appears only about 20% take advantage
> of those builds). We've also done a blog post to try and highlight the
> issue for users not using those daily fixes builds.

THAT is the OTHER fix. And I fully expect that there will be a 27.4 
package available on rpmfusion within a couple of days. And the daily 
Mythbuntu build is good to go. But you do have to do the install, and... 
and... Since I have never done that, I have no idea if you have to make 
any changes to the setup with mythtv-setup after an upgrade.

> While I agree (as I think most people do) that the best way is to move
> forward is using the JSON service, I also believe a zero impact fix is
> needed until a major upgrade.

Not possible. Just NOT possible. One or another fix has to be DONE by 
November 1, 2014. We have no choice. It is useless to whine about when 
it would be 'nice' to do this, and how, but that does not help.

> Simply because upgrading major versions
> of MythTV is more of a user involved process. MythTV fixes can be
> received by a simple apt-get upgrade, however a major MythTV version
> upgrade requires a new repository to be enabled for most users.

Everything I read on this list shows that it is not mythtv upgrades 
which cause major problems, it is OS upgrades. Today, there is a post 
where someone gave up on Ubuntu 14 and went back to 12. That was and is 
a common problem.  Fedora's change to systemd a few versions ago caused 
a lot of chatter as systemd was not/is not particularly well documented 
about how to create working service files. That got figured out in a 
couple of weeks as working files were posted.

I don't know about the 'buntu universe, but the same repos are and have 
been used for all mythtv packages against all Fedora versions since 
Fedora 4. No changes needed. Using ubuntu seems to be its own punishment.

Geoff


-- 
              R. Geoffrey Newbury			
            Barrister and Solicitor
       Suite 106, 150 Lakeshore Road West
          Mississauga, Ontario, L5H 3R2

        t905-271-9600 f905-271-1638
               newbury at mandamus.org


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