[mythtv-users] myth 0.25 prolific log messages

[Dan Littlejohn]

On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Michael T. Dean <mtdean at thirdcontact.com>wrote:

> On 06/01/2012 03:24 PM, Dan Littlejohn wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/01/2012 09:18 AM, Ray Parrish wrote:
>>>
>>>  I recently upgraded to 0.25-fixes using Mythbuntu's auto-build repo,
>>>> and I was surprised at the change in content of the Mythweb logs page.
>>>> Now it seems to log every little detail from both the backend and the
>>>> frontend on the same box. Is there a setting somewhere in either the
>>>> backend or mythweb configuration to return logging to just the
>>>> important backend events the way 0.24 did?
>>>>
>>>>  The MythWeb logs functionality should have been removed, because it's
>>> broken by design.  No one should use it.  (Only reason I left it
>>> in--completely broken--is because I didn't feel like fighting with users
>>> who would complain when I removed it.)
>>>
>>> Those who actually need HTTP access to logging can choose to use the
>>> services API to retrieve the desired information.
>>>
>> People don't complain about things they don't care about.
>>
>>
>> It is a bit ironic that the only things I used in MythWeb were MythWeather
>> and the myth logs as they were really convenient.  I know this is free
>> software, but these were working features
>>
>
> No, MythWeb log viewer wasn't working because database logging wasn't
> working until we got a proper logger.
>
> That said, I'm really curious what you needed to frequently look at in the
> tiny amount of logging that got written to the database in 0.24 and below.
>
>
>   that were removed and I guess you
>> are saying the only way to look at the logs now is through some obscure
>> API.
>>
>
> No, that's not at all what I'm saying.
>
> I'm saying you can use the API directly with your own scripts, or you can
> use the viewer that's provided by the backend.  I'm just saying that the
> MythWeb page is broken and no one using 0.25 or above should use it.
>
>
>    Guess I will do without.
>>
>
> See, this is what I tried to avoid.
>
> The backend log viewer is unfinished, because I'm finding it harder and
> harder to get motivated to work on MythTV when the only reward any of us
> seem to get is grief and complaints.  Eventually, when the viewer is
> working properly, it will be available through MythWeb--but MythWeb will be
> completely uninvolved in the whole feature (just as MythWeb is completely
> uninvolved in the backend status page that's visible through MythWeb, but
> created by the backend--and is also available without going through
> MythWeb).
>
> Eventually, MythWeb should be completely dismantled and all its
> functionality should be provided as part of the backend.  Then, MythWeb
> will become nothing more than a proxy in front of the backend services,
> which allow you to put MythWeb-like functionality on the Internet without
> exposing all of the (completely-insecure) backend functionality available
> through the backend port.  And, for bonus points, MythWeb could provide
> additional skins/themes/styles.
>
> If you want a completed DVR, I recently heard that TiVo is releasing a
> 6-tuner system that allows playback on any TV in the house (and theirs
> actually works with copy-once and even live playback of copy-never
> material)...  If you use MythTV, you'll have to be patient or create your
> own patches.
>
>
> Mike
>
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>

Mike:

Look, I can sympathize.  I write software for a living and a lot of that is
building webtools.  I get daily abuse often from people that have very
unreasonable demands.  As for Myth, my family and I have gotten a lot of
enjoyment out of myth and am as guilty as others of not showing any
appreciation.  It is a fantastic package that has aged well.  My Myth build
is currently 8+ years old and has just gone through it's 4th set of
hardware so I know the software fairly well from a user perspective, but I
don't sift through all the change logs or roadmaps to know what is going
on.   I will say for software I build, once I get something out there then
I do feel it is my job to manage expectations, especially if something is
radically changing or going away.  If I don't want to get a slew of emails
and people in my office I have learned I have to make it intuitive (or
unavoidable) to see the change that is coming.  Please try to see some of
this from our perspective as your explication sounds like a very nice
direction, but I had no knowledge of it till this post.  Why not put a
banner at the top of the MythWeb log explaining the roadmap or something so
people don't get frustrated like this (and maybe save yourself some
frustration too)?

Dan
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