[mythtv-users] MS media center

[Chris Petersen]

On 02/27/2010 07:51 AM, Christopher Meredith wrote:
> According to the page linked above, SD does more than simply meet its
> expenses. While I agree with and approve of everything they do, it
> doesn't follow that I should have to pay them. There are many causes I
> sympathize with, but I don't give them money. That should be my
> choice.

SD cannot operate as a nonprofit entity if we simply "meet our
expenses".  A nonprofit has to provide something to the community -- if
all we do is collect fees in exchange for some data, that makes us a
commercial reseller in the eyes of the IRS.  Thus, we DO NOT DO THAT.
We collect membership fees (official terminology is a "program fee")
that go to support programs that benefit open source software and other
not-for-profit enterprises.  As the member, you then gain access to the
member benefit of scheduling data that we license from TMS (in the same
way that as a member of a non-profit theatre group, you would get
discounted/free access to plays that the theatre puts on).

Yes, SD is currently saving money instead of moving forward with some of
the programs that we have lined up (the two primary ones being free data
for MythTV users of Cable in the Classroom, and a grant program for FOSS
software development).  We still haven't heard back from the IRS about
our 501(c)(3) tax-exempt application.  If we are denied, we will still
move forward with those programs but we will owe a LOT of back taxes
(and penalties).  I would rather delay using our funds to support FOSS
than to see SD dissolved for inability to pay taxes (or worse, have
those of us involved in the project end up in jail).

FWIW, I believe that the *data format* that you are downloading can also
be considered to be a creative work.  Even if the data itself might be
"factual" (e.g. the title of a program on channel 2 at 5pm),
presentation of that data can be covered by copyright.

> Yes. All are agreed that it violates the TOS. The point is, so what?
> I'm not a party to it so what does it matter?

How are you not a party to it?  You are either a legit owner of MCE, in
which case you accepted the EULA and are accessing the MS data service
with an unauthorized piece of software, or you do not own MCE but are
still accessing the MS data service with an unauthorized piece of
software.  The TOS applies to the data service, NOT MCE.  This is why
websites have terms of use -- you are a party to them by using the
website, regardless of whether or not you agreed to them, they are
posted publicly and it is your responsibility to accept them (IANAL, but
I'm pretty sure this has been held up in court enough times to set
precedent).

>> When someone provides you with something of value, you reciprocate.
> 
> And in most cases, I do. But I'm not using SD so it's not like I'm
> stealing from them. Besides, SD wasn't the only one to jump in and
> make sure EPG data continued to be available. The author of zap2xml
> (and then mc2xml) did so as well.

Both of which cause the users of said applications to violate the TOS of
the websites/services they get the data from.  It may not be stealing,
but it's certainly immoral.

-Chris

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