[mythtv-users] POLL *** How many people on the list are running UK combined Freeview and Freesat setups?

Tue Sep 8 02:53:41 UTC 2009

2009/9/8 Nick Rout <nick.rout at gmail.com>:
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Another
> Sillyname<anothersname at googlemail.com> wrote:
>> 2009/9/7 Yeechang Lee <ylee at pobox.com>:
>>>
>>> As a non-Briton I'm curious as to how combining Freeview and Freesat
>>> is different from similar situations elsewhere. As an American my
>>> setup has integrated both over-the-air and cable almost from MythTV
>>> day one. One schedule source (DataDirect then, SchedulesDirect now)
>>> provides listings for every conceivable TV source (OTA, cable, and
>>> satellite), and as long as I make sure identical channels on each
>>> source carry identical callsigns, the scheduler just works
>>> (<URL:http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/216512#216512>).
>>>
>>> I know Britons don't have one comprehensive listings source, but what
>>> else would be different between my setup and someone running Freeview
>>> and Freesat?
>>>
>>> --
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>>
>> Hi
>>
>> The UK has two comprehensive sources of data from DVB depending on
>> whether you're using DVB-T or DVB-S.  The data source is referred to
>> as the EIT (Event Information Table). This EIT transmits date for a
>> set period ahead (usually 8 days) and also for the "Now and Next"
>> programs to allow late program changes to be transferred.
>>
>> Combining these is fairly straighforward and allows maximum
>> flexibility for your system.
>>
>> The DVB-T Muxes in the UK usually carry about 4-8 TV Channels (some on
>> a timeshare basis) and then some carry assorted radio channels and
>> other data feeds, you can see the list here.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_channels_on_Freeview_(UK)
>>
>> As there is a high incidence of Muxes sharing channels you can often
>> use one physical tuner to record three channels using myth's multirec
>> facility.
>>
>> On DVB-S because the channels tend to be spread over many more muxes
>> it's rare that multirec gets used.
>>
>> You can also get listing data from The Radio Times which I believe
>> uses XML (I don't use it myself).
>>
>> The main advantage in the UK is say on Freesat, if you so desired, you
>> can record as many channels as you have DVB-S(2) cards.  Usually with
>> cable as I understand it you are limited to recording one (or two?)
>> channels per subscription you pay for.
>>
>> There are way's to record satellite subscription channels using a
>> legitimate viewing card that cannot be discussed on this list. Using
>> virtual card sharers you can in effect record as many subscription
>> channels as you desire using only one subscription card (the dedicated
>> STB supplied by Sky is limited to two channels recording per card
>> similar to cables limitations).
>>
>> Hope this clears up some of your questions.
>
> I'm not sure that your answer (whilst informative) answers the
> question of why it seems to be difficult to combine -S and -T
> successfully from a EPG point of view.
>
> In NZ freeview broadcasts simultaneously on DVB-S and DVB-T. DVB-S is
> all SD/mpeg2 while -T is a mix of HD & SD (depending on the channel)
> but all in h.264. By and large the two services run the exact same
> channels, although there is the odd one that appears only on one of
> the services. Therefore when combining the problem can be
> prioritisation - you want all your Dr Who in HD but you don't care
> about the daily news being in SD or HD.
>
> Like you, we in NZ have EIT info on satellite (terrestrial uses MHEG
> instead of EIT). The trouble is the data is often crap. One week its
> Dr Who, the next its Doctor Who, the next its Dr Who:The Sontaran
> Strategem (yes thats right put the subtitle in with the title,
> idiots). Therefore some clever fella has written a program to gather
> the EIT and then massage the common faults out, producing a xmltv file
> that can be used with myth. The same data can be used for -T as the
> programming is identical (bar those few channels that appear only on
> one service).
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>

Nick

As I said in my response it's not that difficult to combine the EIT
date, personally I have two EIT sources (EITT and EITS), I then use
mythweb to select my channel numbers and decide which channels are
visible and the EIT data drops in no problem.  Our EIT data is pretty
reliable although sometimes the now and next is a bit naff.

The problem some people have is in selecting which source to record a
particular program from, for example you may get a program transmitted
on BBC 1 and simulcast on BBC HD, it'll also likely be transmitted
from satellite on BBC 1 Wales, BBC 1 Scotland, BBC 1 Northern Ireland,
these are regional flavours of BBC 1 (I'm sure you worked that out but
for others on the list), you get similar regional variations for BBC
2, ITV and Channel 4.

As multirecing isn't great on satellite you often want to prioritise a
recording to DVB-T to maximise your multirec options but currently HD
isn't available on DVB-T (although it's getting rolled out as part of
the digital switchover).  Personally I don't choose the "Record on any
channel" option when setting up a recording job, instead favouring the
"Record at any time on Channel blah blah", it tends to reduce
conflicts.

Included in the EIT data block is a program identifier, however some
channels, Dave and the Reality channels spring to mind, don't use it.
This means any program recorded on those channels will be re-recorded
every time it's transmitted, this is also why I choose the "Record at
any time on channel blah" option.

Hope I've explained it better this time?

.