[mythtv-users] [Slightly OT] solar power for all our gadgets

[Andrew Close]

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Jon Bishop
<jon.the.wise.gdrive at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes and no. I'm not saying everyone should produce ALL their own energy.
> That would be impractical, and fall right in line with what you're saying...
> but SOME of the energy - that's easy. It might be that it needs to be a
> socialized system (oh no, I said the S word) where everyone pays for the
> electricity that they use, and rather than building huge solar farms in the
> desert, the utilities take the surplus and offer incentive programs to
> install solar on rooftops. Instead of lobbying to build huge dams that might
> have irreversible impacts on the environment, they could use that money to
> install micro-hydro facilities in every creek and river in the US. Many of
> these facilities would be on private land, and none of them would disrupt
> the flow of the water. By doing this, we also gain the benefit of a
> decentralized grid, and when grid-tied systems are hooked up properly (that
> transfer switch is very important) with battery banks in many of these
> people's homes, we won't NEED to build huge nuclear reactors to make up for
> the energy that we're currently producing from coal.
>
>> Making every individual generate some energy creates huge inefficiencies
>> which, when simplified, translates to making everyone needlessly poorer.
>
> I don't see how you figure that. By having energy placed into the grid WHERE
> it is BEING USED instead of generating it in Arizona and shipping it over
> high voltage lines across hundreds of miles, you're reducing inefficiencies
> in the grid.
>
>> Plus, I don't know about you, but I'm tapped out, in terms of time and,
>> money.  I do not want to take up home generation as my new hobby--I'd have
>> to give up MythTV.   I resent the folks who think, "Oh, my idea will cost
>> everyone several hours a week, but that's okay, they can afford it to
>> satisfy my pet view of paradise."
>
> Well, actually, home power generation *is* sorta one of my hobbies, along
> with all my other interests which we won't get into, time has never been my
> problem, it's always the costs that get me. That's likely because of my
> plethora of other hobbies and interests. I also have a slightly longer
> weekend than most. For a moment we'll ignore the costs (as scale increases,
> those would go down, to a point where it's actually cheaper to use solar
> than to pay for the fuel to use traditional techniques). Having solar power
> on your roof doesn't cost any time (sans installation, which is usually done
> by a contractor, an occasional shot at the roof with a hose, maybe a
> semi-annual squeegeeing, which the neighbor kid might be able to do with a
> big pole, while he's mowing the lawns) Nor does having a micro-hydro
> generator. A windmill takes semi-annual maintenance, but again, not a couple
> hours a week. None of these solutions is perfect everywhere. Many of them
> compliment each other though. As long as we have people saying no, we can't
> do that, I don't want to, it's too much money, or it's too hard - of course
> it's going to be all those things. Until we actually put forth efforts on a
> national scale, the individuals that DO actually do these things are the
> only ones that will ever benefit, and it will be expensive for them to do
> so.
>
>> If we all had to build all the stuff we use, we'd all be subsistence
>> farmers.  There certainly wouldn't be any telecommunications industry
>> beyond telegraphs on copper lines--maybe, assuming we could get ourselves
>> up to smelting and drawing copper.
>
> You are completely misinterpreting what I've said. I could never build a
> computer from scratch. Nor a cell phone. I'm talking about ELECTRICITY,
> which, as I mentioned, is EASY to make. All you need is a roll of copper
> wire and magnet, and you can make AC. Add a couple diodes, and you've got
> DC. To make 'usable' (for modern devices, on a realistic scale) electricity
> will take a couple more magnets and a few more coils of wire, but it's not
> all that difficult, nor time consuming. Doing this one thing would solve so
> many of the energy problems we face today.
>
>> It sounds like you read one of those beautiful tracts in environmental
>> lobby magazines which completely ignore the realities of modern society
>> and its infrastructure.
>
> While it is true that I've been a subscriber to magazines such as Mother
> Earth News, I do not believe that we should sacrifice infrastructure and
> technology for the benefit of nature. I am, however, a strong believer in
> that fact that we need to SUPPLEMENT and DECENTRALIZE our infrastructure, to
> increase it's efficiency and sustainability. And in doing so, nature
> benefits.
>
> If you have tons of electrical devices, you should consider producing some
> of the energy to run them. I'm not talking about heat and a/c, a
> fridge/freezer, water heater and stove. I'm talking about big screen plasma
> TVs and dozens of computers all over the house, high wattage stereos and
> video game systems (the ps3 comes to mind - whatta power hog) massaging
> recliners, hot tubs... I believe that common sense should be used, and no
> mandate given though. If you use an exceptional amount of power, you should
> pay more for it.
>
> On Mar 10, 2009, at 8:47 AM, Jeff Walther wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:52:08 +0100
>>> From: Jos Hoekstra <joshoekstra at gmx.net>
>>
>>> 'you Yanks' are
>>> still paying ridicillously little for your power.
>>
>> There is no virtue, nor advantage to paying more.
>
> The virtue, or advantage, of paying more, is that people waste less. It's a
> simple fact of life. You can rant and rave, and insist that people conserve
> energy... but the second you start charging more for it, the usage goes
> down. Look, for example, at our fuel usage last summer. I'm not suggesting
> we artificially inflate prices to decrease waste - but if it works, then why
> not? Use the surplus money for forward thinking improvements that make for
> sustainability rather than padding wallets.
>
> If you want to grow a garden, or have a green lawn, capture the runoff from
> your rooftops, store it, and use it to water those things. Then, that much
> more potable water is available for someone else to use from the public
> utility company. Grey water systems are an excellent way to conserve. Take a
> shower, and then use that same water to water your lawn. Same with laundry
> water. Toilet water needs to go to the sewer and be properly processed.
>
> Nobody has to suffer to reach this ideal, but everyone has to sacrifice a
> little. Nobody wants to sacrifice anything. And our society of greed and
> selfishness keeps rolling on towards the huge cliff.

i love some of these OT discussions :)  they always lead to new and
interesting stuff.
Jon, do you have any good resources/links for home power generation?
i'd like to add that to my hobby list too.

-- 
Andrew Close