[mythtv-users] Free US/Canada Listings

R. G. Newbury newbury at mandamus.org
Sun Sep 9 22:02:46 UTC 2007

D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> | From: R. G. Newbury <newbury at mandamus.org>
> | And the list owners now recognize that scraping in defiance of user 
> | agreements  or web-site owners is illegal.
> I certainly don't believe that to be the case.

Screen scraping by an individual would be a fair use under copyright 
law. Publishing scraped data would not be. Publishing a scraper could be 
viewed as enabling a technology to circumvent a technical measure...etc 
under the DCMA. I don't think that the Myth devs need or want to be 
connected to any such sort of claim. Even if the particular instance of 
scraping is (eventually) found to not be improper. And the particular 
instance will be fact based for its foundation, but will have wider 
implications (like the BetaMax case).

> "Intellectual Property" law is evolving at a tremendous rate.  Without
> user push-back, it evolves one way.  We users need to be less timid.
> Don't believe claims made in EULAs -- they are just that, claims.

Agreed. It all depends on what the EULA claims and the objective 
circumstances. The EFF has just filed a complaint against the NFL and 
others for their over-reaching and patently (sorry!) egregious 
mis-statements of copyright law.

> US law may not apply to all of us interested in US/Canada listings.
> Both you and I, for example, are in Canada.

Well the site where we get our listings is in the US, so we are 
affected, personally, even if the legal situation which would apply to 
us is different.

> Heck, if the IP owners had their way (and they may well), MythTV will
> be illegal.  The US "Betamax" decision would most likely go the other
> way if it were tried by the current US Supreme court.  In any case,
> state-backstopped DRM is rendering Betamax moot.

I agree that that is what some IP owners might like but I doubt that it 
will happen. Unfortunately, the IP owners have the money to ensure that 
they have the best politicians that money can buy in their corner. But I 
  do not think that the US Supreme Court will backtrack from BetaMax. In 
fact, I suspect that they would widen allowable uses if the proper case 
came before them.
Meanwhile, in Canada those IP owners are pushing for more restrictive 
changes to the Copyright Act - see Bill C-60 (introduced June 2005 but 
not yet passed) which will make, among other things, the circumvention 
of technological measures a separate form of breach of copyright *even 
when done for the purpose of making an allowed private copy of a sound 
recording under Section 80*....deja-vu-DCMA.
Offering a service to circumvent a technological measure is also to be a 
breach of copyright.
And BTW, none of the provisions which allow the making of private copies 
of sound recordings under Section 80 apply to 'cinematographic works', 
such as TV broadcasts. Our only hidey-hole is 'fair dealing' which is a 
very shallow fox-hole to hide in...



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