[mythtv-users] tv guide line-up free

Jay R. Ashworth jra at baylink.com
Wed Sep 5 22:53:36 UTC 2007

On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 11:53:55AM -0700, Robert Current wrote:
> Rod Roark Wrote:
> > Michael T. Dean wrote:
> > [long rant about illegal software deleted]
> >
> > I think we're OK.  DirecTV's terms appear to be plainly expressed.
> > The document speaks for itself.  What more proof is required?  Large
> > corporations do not give "express written permission" to the consumer
> I'd agree with you Rod, Michael T. Dean seems to be a pretty
> pro-Schedules Direct guy that has already made up his mind that there
> is no option other than Schedules Direct, and he seems to think
> anything else is illegal and stupid.  And, he has no problem starting
> long rants about how illegal or stupid you are if you oppose Schedules
> Direct.

I apologize for coming late to this thread; it's been a long week.

Dean does nothing of the sort.  I know this because, roughly a month
ago, I was up to my *eyeballs* in discussions on exactly how to do just
that: find and provide another source of listings data.

I don't recall him piping up at all.

Certainly not enough for me to remember him by name.  :-)

> Because of his attitude, any discussion on this list of other options
> is squashed.  You can forget trying to bring up anything with hopes of
> working out some solution, because all you will get is name calling
> and FUD.  It's this attitude that made me refuse to consider using it.

I'm pretty sure that's a strawman, Rob.

> They are 100% committed to making the project work, no matter what
> good ideas are thrown aside in the process, and how much
> disinformation they have to spread.

Mr Dean, AFAICT, is not directly involved with SD, so that assertion
has no basis.

> Just look at all the FUD on the Schedules Direct Website!  They have a
> FAQ "What about alternatives to licensing data?"  In that, they
> discuss VBI, EIT, and Screen-scrape, saying all options are impossible
> or illegal, and Schedules Direct is the ONLY option.  That's simply
> not true.

I don't think that's exactly what they said, but all of those options
have other problems, even if they aren't illegal -- or more to the
point, a violation of *civil copyright*.

> AFAIK and IANAL, Titan TV is desperate for traffic to it's website.  I
> believe web traffic directly impacts their income.  So, not only have
> the GB-PVR guys have a working XML to xmltv converter, and not only
> can they pull listings, they can set up an account on TitanTV, and
> schedule recordings right from the TitanTV website:
> http://forums.gbpvr.com/showthread.php?t=27618&highlight=titantv
> I don't know, but I suspect TitanTV is thrilled to get more people
> visiting the site and using the listings. 

I'm sure they are.  But I have heard, first hand, that they SD people
*talked* to Decisionmark, and found they weren't interested.

> I've said all this before, half the time I'm ignored, the other half
> the time I get called everything short of Satan for even bringing it
> up.

You're not Satan.

You're the guy who goes in the convenience store and gets the
cigarettes for Satan.


>       The problem isn't data sources, the problem is programmer
> resources.  They are all on the Schedules Direct bandwagon.  There are
> alternatives, but nothing anyone in the MythTV project is working on.
> This whole thing didn't happen in a vacuum, it affected other groups
> too, some have came up with other solutions.

No, the problem *really is* data sources.  I promise.

> TitanTV offers free XML listing data to download, IF you have a
> partner product (Adaptec, ATi, Hauppauge, etc...).  Anyone willing to
> work on it should find it is actually a more obvious source of data
> than scrapers, for testing you can pull listings even without the
> accounts by just tweaking the URL for the XML data:
> Here's where the topic dies, or Michael T. Dean shows up to call me
> Satan and say it's all illegal, or both?

It's not "illegal" in any case.

Whether it violates Decisionmark's TOS depends entirely on what they
say, and I haven't read them.  Have you?

-- jra
Jay R. Ashworth                   Baylink                      jra at baylink.com
Designer                     The Things I Think                       RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates     http://baylink.pitas.com                     '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA      http://photo.imageinc.us             +1 727 647 1274

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