[mythtv-users] ATTENTION: Want to help remove 5C FireWire encryption?

Wed Feb 28 02:17:33 UTC 2007

On 2/21/07, Matt <skd5aner at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/6/07, Yeechang Lee <ylee at pobox.com> wrote:
> > To my fellow American MythTV users:
> >
> > Over the past few months I've been corresponding with James Snider
> > <jsnider at 1394ta.org>, executive director of the 1394 Trade Association
> > (1394 TA; <URL:http://www.1394ta.org/>). 1394 TA is an industry
> > organization that promotes the deployment of devices compatible with
> > IEEE 1394, better known as FireWire.
> >
> > Naturally, 1394 TA would like to encourage consumers' use of the
> > FireWire ports now required on all US high-definition cable
> > boxes. However, those with the boxes are all aware of the
> > extremely-restrictive 5C encryption that prevents almost all of us
> > from actually using the ports with MythTV to record the channels we
> > pay good money to subscribe to.
> >
> > Given that the Federal Communications Commission instituted the
> > FireWire mandate in the first place, the FCC is best positioned to
> > expand the mandate to prevent cable companies from using the
> > encryption. However, the FCC needs to see evidence that the encryption
> > is actually hurting consumers.
> >
> > Let me now let Mr. Snider speak for himself:
> >
> >    After many months of working on the problem with the 1394 port in
> >    the Set Top Box, it has become clear that the only way to make
> >    things move forward is to file complaints with the FCC.  I was on
> >    the phone a few days ago with the FCC to discuss this and they are
> >    on our side.  What they need is a few complaints to move things
> >    along.  The cable companies are telling the FCC that their
> >    customers never ask for 1394 so they have no incentive to provide
> >    a better solution.
> >
> >    [...]
> >
> >    If I can get your name, address, and any tracking number they can
> >    give you, I will make sure the right people inside the FCC a aware
> >    of your complaint.
> >
> >    [...]
> >
> >    Please feel free to forward the information to other interested
> >    parties.  If they will supply me with their name, address, and
> >    complaint tracking number, I will make sure their concerns reach
> >    sympathetic people inside the FCC.  Having a copy of the actual
> >    complaint is also very helpful.
> >
> >    [...]
> >
> >    There are a number of commissioners and some high ranking people
> >    in their technical committees who are very keen for this
> >    information.
> >
> > Mr. Snider asks that those who want to help do the following:
> >
> > * Go to <URL:http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cib/fcc475.cfm>. Despite its
> >  appearance, form 475 is what is used to file the kind of set top
> >  box-related complaints relevant here. Disregard the fact that much
> >  of the form talks about telephone-related issues (I simply put in my
> >  own phone number wherever one was required).
> > * Step 2f is the most important part of the form. Go into as much
> >  detail as you can on why 5C FireWire encryption for TV settop boxes
> >  is a bad idea for society in general and for you and your family in
> >  particular. Be polite, considerate, accurate, and respectful. Bee
> >  shure 2 spel chek ur riting n gramar. IMPORTANT: Save a copy of what
> >  you write for Step 2f before submitting the form.
> > * After submitting, you will get a tracking number something like
> >  FORM475: XX-XXXXXXXXX. Write to jsnider at 1394ta.org with your name,
> >  address, the tracking number, and what you wrote in Step 2f.
> > * Keep your fingers crossed.
> >
> > To help inspire your own original thoughts, here is what I wrote for
> > Step 2f:
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> >
> > I have cable modem and HDTV cable-TV service through RCN here in San
> > Francisco. RCN, fortunately, does not 5C-encode any channels over
> > FireWire. This means that I can record all the channels I subscribe
> > to, including premium high-definitino movie channels such as HBO, with
> > my MythTV computer and two Motorola 6200 cable boxes. (MythTV is free,
> > open-source software developed by a volunteer community with which
> > consumers can turn computers into TiVo-like devices. Please see
> > <URL:http://www.mythtv.org/> for more information.)
> >
> > When I moved recently, I wanted to keep using MythTV. However,
> > unfortunately RCN is available in only a few apartment buildings near
> > downtown San Francisco (the area I work and live in). Comcast, the
> > principal cable-TV provider in San Francisco, is like most cable
> > companies in the US as it 5C-encrypts all subscribed non over-the-air
> > channels. This severely restricted the pool of potential housing I
> > could choose from. In other words, Comcast's action prevented me from
> > living where I wanted to live. At least I had a non 5C-using cable
> > provider as a possible option, however limited in geographical scope;
> > I am aware of numerous other users of MythTV (and similar projects)
> > around the US that do not have any choices at all and thus have no way
> > whatsoever of recording from the high-definition channels they
> > subscribe to.
> >
> > I realize that cable companies are concerned about piracy. I can
> > assure them that I have no interest whatsoever in illicitly
> > redistributing my high-definition recordings to others. Even beyond
> > the illegality, HD recordings are enormous; anywhere from 10GB for the
> > typical premium movie-channel movie with lots of compression to up to
> > 25GB for a lengthy classic film on HDNet Movies or an over-the-air
> > channel. (The longest, in my experience, was The Sound of Music on
> > NBC; four hours and 28GB.) These files would take *days* (at least 62
> > hours for The Sound of Music) to upload to others, even using
> > sophisticated peer-to-peer distribution methods like BitTorrent, and
> > even considering that the 1-megabit upload bandwidth RCN's fiber-based
> > network provides is pretty much state of the art for residential
> > broadband this side of Verizon FiOS. I, frankly, have much better
> > things to do with my Internet connection!
> >
> > Thus, I respectfully petition the FCC that it expands its existing
> > mandate requiring cable companies to provide FireWire-equipped cable
> > boxes to a) also include satellite-TV settop boxes and b) guarantee
> > that all subscribed channels, regardless of category or visual
> > quality, will be available to customers without encryption. Step b)
> > can be accomplished by 1) requiring cable companies to remove all
> > encryption from FireWire ports and/or 2) mandating that the CableCARD
> > standard be made freely available to all comers (perhaps made into an
> > IEEE standard of its own) so that amateur developers of projects such
> > as MythTV can incorporate the specifications into their software
> > without paying exorbitant license fees and signing restrictive NDAs,
> > and that computer-peripheral manufacturers can manufacture expansion
> > cards that CableCARDs can plug into.
> >
> > I am happy to provide further details on these issues as requested.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Yeechang Lee
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Good luck, everyone.
> > --
> > Yeechang Lee <ylee at pobox.com> | +1 650 776 7763 | San Francisco CA US
>
>
> Yeechang,
>
> Maybe it would be good to put this out on the wiki so that people can
> find it more easily instead of it just getting burried in the e-mail
> archives.  I wish you (and the rest of us) the best on this effort!
>
> Thanks!
> Matt
>

Yeechang,

Have you seen this thread?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=649140

That might be a good place to get some more people involved. I noticed
the same guy you're working with is involed in that thread from last
year. I'm moving to an area that has cable provided by Time Warner and
I was informed that after an update no one's firewire port works
anymore.  Time Warner even has a page saying what it takes to get
firewire, but it seems like they are just ignoring the problem.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/nc/products/cable/firewire.html

Thanks!
Matt