[mythtv-users] Feature request. MythVideo folder browser.

[S. Baker]

On Sat, 22 May 2004, J. Donavan Stanley wrote:

> S. Baker wrote:
> 
> >This issue comes up again, and once again set off by an un-helpful
> >reply by Donovan. 
> >
> Would you prefer it if I said "Hey we'll get right on it!" and then 
> didn't?  I'm sorry if the reality of things is "unhelpful" to you.  I 
> could have given the standard response "Sounds great we look forward to 
> your patch."  would that be more helpful?

It would be helpful if you pointed them to a TODO list and said it would
be added.  A request for a feature does not equal a demand on your time.
It is simply a request.  Someone else may come along and impliment it,
or the origional requestor may get tired of waiting and do it themself.
Or, you might agree that it sounds like a wonderful idea, and it becomes
your next itch.  If the suggestion is never made, you will never know.
> 
> > It would be a lot more useful and friendly to 
> >mythtv users to keep a list of requests, so that developers have
> >a target to shoot at, 
> >
> The developers *do* have a target, our own personal itches.  What part 
> of my original message didn't you get?

Oh, I got your origional message, loud and clear.

> 
> >These lists should be prioritized by
> >the lead developer (think project manager). 
> >
> Gee more work for Isaac, making a list of crap he's not interested in 
> just so folks (who are already getting something for n nothing) can feel 
> all warm and fuzzy?

It doesn't have to be prioritized, but if the lead developer wants to he
is the one that should.  He should have the choice.

> 
> >At the very 
> >least point the user to the code, and give some pointers.  
> >Giving them a 'I know everything already, and am going to ignore you'
> >attitude is not helping the project at all.  
> >
> It may not be helpful to the person making the request, but it doesn't 
> hurt the project.  I'm *sorry* the developers don't jump to the beck and 
> call of the user base, but they do this for *free* and for *fun*.  The 
> fact that non-contributers use Myth is pretty much incidental, you're 
> not paying for it and you're not adding to it, all you're doing is 
> consuming, asking for more and then getting pissy when you're told no.

It does hurt the project.  It decided me that it was going to take more
work to contribute to this project than I currently had time for.  Not
having a TODO list where I could select something easy to start with
kept me from contributing.  I would guess there are others too.
> 
> >I have been a developer for a long time.  I thought that a good
> >way to get started with mythtv would be to install it and play
> >with it a bit. 
> >
> Yep perfectly reasonable.
> 
> > Next step:  give some ideas for development, and
> >see what people thought.  
> >
> Had it been phrased as "Here's what I'm thinking of doing" you wouldn't 
> have gotten the response you did.  As an FYI posting to the users list 
> with ideas for development is a bad idea.  Not all the developers read 
> the user list on a regular basis (or at all).
> 
> >I immediately got a response from 
> >Donovan that I considered pretty rude (go read it and judge
> >for yourself).  
> >
> I explained to you the reality of MythTV development.  I'm certain I was 
> blunt, but I don't think I was rude..  Though I find it hilarious that 
> I'm sitting here writing this while wearing a shirt that says "I don't 
> give a fuck if you're offended".
> 
> >It is probably the primary reason I just haven't
> >found the time to take the next steps:  
> >
> So I hurt your feelings and now you're going to sulk?  For crying out 
> loud I *should* have flamed you then at least you'd have a reason to be 
> bitching.

Wow, what an amazing response.  You made it more difficult to contribute,
thus I didn't feel I had the time it would take to be productive.  Instead
I focused on something that was easier to deal with.
> 
> >find a small project
> >to work on (can't do that 'cause there isn't a TODO list anywhere
> >to be found).  
> >
> Find and itch and scratch it... How hard is that?

Pretty tough if the itches I keep thinking of are big projects.  Perhaps
others think of easier things to do?  Without a todo list, I'll never
know.

> 
> >Finally tackle something major.  Possibly
> >add some system-engineering to the project eventually (one of 
> >my current jobs).
> >  
> >
> Word of advice, if it ain't broke don't fix it unless there's a 
> seriously compelling reason to do so, and even then only if Isaac approves.

So?

> 
> >Look around at other big open source projects.  How many of them
> >have a feature request list? A bug-tracking system?  How many 
> >have a release plan, or at least a list of required issues
> >to be resolved before the next release?  
> >  
> >
> 
> How many of them are MythTV?

So?  How many of them are Linux?  How many are GCC?
> 
> 
> >It is still likely that I will work on MythTV, but as I said
> >above, my motivation is pretty low right now.  
> >
> If my informing you that feature requests are frowned upon trashed your 
> motivation to the point where you don't feel like contributing you need 
> to get a much thicker skin before trying to contribute anyway.

It's not a matter of thin or thick skin.  It's a matter of how much
time it costs to contribute.  It's a matter of stifling the suggestions
of the creative that may never contribute code, but may test your software
for you, or come up with an idea that you can't imagine.

> 
> >It is a great
> >effort, and has come a long way.  Discouraging users and
> >developers from contributing  in _any_ way does not help
> >propel the project forward.
> >  
> >
> For the most part users don't contribute developers do.  And developers 
> don't tend to make feature requests they supply patches.

Here is the main problem.  Everyone that sends an email to the mailing
list contributes.  Developers contribute code.  Users provide testing
and ideas for new features.  Users, with a low enough barrier to entry
can become developers.  Or they could write documentation.  Or they 
make a suggestion that developers jump on because it is a great idea
that they didn't think of.  Given the right incentives.  Attacking
suggestions, or taking the egalatarian attitude that 'only developers
contribute' is definitely hurting the MythTV project.

> 
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