[mythtv-users] Mailing list and a Wiki... and a dessert topping

Wed May 19 17:12:10 EDT 2004

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Wow, between the last two volleys this discussion is taking on all the 
hallmarks of an election year campaign.  I think its gotten too personal that 
no rational thought or progress is going to come out of it at this point.  
When people no longer attempt to see the others point of view (and I refer to 
the world in general and not a specific side here) there is not a chance for 
progress.

Personally I have not been able to get my question answered in the official 
docs, mailing lists or wiki.  I humbly submit that: all of them suck, I suck, 
most of us sucks, the wiki sucks, gossamer threads suck, forums suck, bruce 
sucks, david sucks, windows sucks and rich people suck, anchovy pizza sucks 
and taxes too.

Now, if anyone cannot find SOMETHING in the above statement that they agree 
agree with let me know and I will amend it.  

So now we all have a statement we can all agree with at least part of...  I am 
glad to be a part of bringing concensous back into the group.

Peace

On Wednesday 19 May 2004 04:31 pm, David wrote:
> If you read Bruce's mail then please my reply.
>
> If you didn't then don't bother.
>
> Sorry for the BW
>
> David
>
> Bruce Markey wrote:
> > J. Donavan Stanley wrote:
> >> John Sturgeon wrote:
> >
> > ...
> >
> >>> Good question.  Why don't you log in and fix it?
> >>
> >> I'm *really* sick of this topic but I just had to point out the
> >> hypocrisy of your answers to Michael here.   Here you are telling him
> >> to fix the wiki when the wiki folks refuse to fix the existing docs
> >> and instead run off to do their own thing (and get it wrong).
> >
> > Ditto. There is no reason useful info can't be included in the
> > open source documentation.
>
> Open source?
> Actually the official docs are copyright and not obviously licensed
> (GPL? GFDL?)
> The Wiki is public domain (more open than GPL).
> Maybe you could get Isaac/Rob to clarify if the FAQ is GPL? or GFDL?
>
> > That is the best way to get information
> > into the hands of the people that an author supposedly wants to
> > inform. However, this simple logic will never phase these people.
>
> Mmm.
>
> > I've seen this game played over and over. Not just this thread,
> > not just this project, not just this month, year, decade or even
> > millennium.
>
> Shit you must be old. no wonder you're so wise.
>
> > No one wants to to admit to the underlying motivation but the
> > reason people refuse to contribute but put up information in
> > their own form is because they want to be perceived as being an
> > expert and receive praise from the people they attract.
>
> Ah - that's it.
> FYI - I have a perfectly working Myth system - it's great.
> Really - I have 400Gb of TV recorded - I think it crashed a couple of
> times when the disks filled up.
> I have a remote frontend too - I watch it every night. I'm sorted thanks :)
> I like coding too - I *much* prefer it to doing docs :) Really. I can
> code in C++, C, perl, python, tcl (oh-oh, I'm boasting now)
> Myth already has coders - and they're better than me anyway - much
> better. So I thought "This is good, what can I do to help?". And I'm
> doing it.
> And it's working.
>
> FYI - I have a nice house, a fantastic wife, two shit hot cars and a
> superbike (doh - I just can't get over this boasting!)
> I *must* just be looking for hero worship from some random internet geek :D
> Don't make me laugh.
> Oh - and the *real* point - I've got better things to do. I *choose* to
> do this.
>
> > To these
> > authors, there are two obvious drawbacks to contributing. First,
> > their work would have be correct and subject to review.
>
> Yeah, bummer - that's why half the stuff on the wiki is already being
> edited by multiple people - no review there then.
>
> > Any
> > mis-information may be corrected or amended and thus would no
> > longer be completely their work. Most importantly, however, their
> > work would become anonymous. Remember, this is not to help other
> > people or even to be part of a team creating the best possible
> > result. The motivation is simply to draw attention to themselves.
>
> Obviously the the idea of a wiki is that the end result is all my work.
> How many names on the wiki - oops, lost count ... and some don't even
> register.
> Obviously all my work then ;)
>
> How many names in the official docs? oh, one.  Yes ONE name...
>
> No, wait - yep - I didn't read every word but ...
>
> Will you look at this...
> http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-20.html#ss20.12
>
>
> Fuck me -  that's hilarious -- the *only* attributed name in the
> official docs is...... yours!!!
>
>
> Really - I just scanned them all - and I had to check that you wrote
> this mail...
>
> > Once you know the game, all the responses are predictable and
> > tired. The first thing that needs to happen is that the possibility
> > of contributing to the thing, in this case open source documentation,
> > has to be dismissed ASAP.
>
> Did you see this:
>   It's important to note that if you contribute to this site, you'll be
> consenting to have your content used in unimaginable ways by anyone who
> wants to. There's Important License Information
> <http://www.mythtv.info/moin.cgi/ImportantLicenseInformation> you should
> read before you contribute. The point of all this is so we can use
> anything on this site to help make MythTV better ;) (Any comments or
> suggestions to the Admin Group
> <http://www.mythtv.info/moin.cgi/AdminGroup> please - we're winging it
> and would appreciate feedback!)
>
>  From day 1 - not an add in.
> (You can check - there's a revision system)
>
> > The topic must be buried swiftly so that
> > the assumption that there must be another location for information
> > is imperative. Usually the author/wannabe comes up with what they
> > think is a creative defense one time then never addresses the
> > possibility of contributing again. This one was fun though. The
> > guy simply said "I don't want to" with the word "don't" highlighted
> > for emphasis =).
>
> I notice you selectively quoted me - good tactic.
>
> You missed these bits:
>   I _do_ want somewhere to work on updates to the docs - but not on my
> own - I would like to encourage people to help
>   (I refer readers to my earlier post on 'feeding back to the core docs'
> being a frontpage objective - in case anyone things I'm trying to
> 'split' the docs)
>
> Your point loses something there then... I can understand why you felt
> the need to be selective.
>
> > So, while contributing information into the distribution that
> > will be seen by every future user is clearly the right thing to
> > do, there is no way to phrase it that won't draw a counter-
> > argument simply because contributing would not meet the true
> > objectives.
>
> Which if I've read you right is hero-worship?
>
> Did you really believe what you wrote?
>
> David
>
> PS - just one name in the whole FAQ - and it's yours. Gosh, you did a
> great job by yourself there then.
>
> My hero.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users at mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

- -- 

Bill Chmura

w. http://www.fistfullofcode.com
w. http://www.explosivo.com

- ------------------------------------------------------

"No matter what, never, ever, ever, ever tell your girl friend she is looking 
a little puffy."
- -Ancient chinese proverb

"Some people go to bed with Lucifer, then they cry when they don't greet the 
day with God"
- -Monster Magnet

Without good motivation, science and technology, instead of helping, bring 
more fear and threaten global destruction. Compassionate thought is very 
important for humankind.
- -His Holiness the Dalai Lama

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