[mythtv-users] Torrentocracy

Dex West dexwest at yahoo.com
Tue Jun 22 20:45:57 EDT 2004

--- Thor Melsted <thor at netwood.net> wrote:
> Please don't make assumptions about people you don't
> know. 
> I also make my living off intellectual property.
> That doesn't mean I'm going to sit back and accept
> whatever draconian BS the
> MPAA or the RIAA lobbies for, when it directly
> limits my rights.
> I'm all for intellectual property rights, which you
> would have understood if
> you had actually bothered to read what I wrote.  I
> didn't condone
> filesharing or even say that I participated in it
> (for the record, I don't
> use p2p and I don't upload anything). 
> However, I was stating an opinion about laws which
> you don't seem to fully
> understand.
> Again, J. Donavan Stanley hacked up a hairball and
> growled:
> >  
> >
> >
> >They lobbied for it  because they were seeing their
> content spread all over
> the internet and
> >not seeing a dime for it.
I have to agree with you here.
> >> I record a particular show on a weekly basis and
> edit out the commercials
> >>myself and encode it to a nice format such as
> Xvid, but what if one week
> >>there's a power outage and I miss the recording? 
> How would it be
> different
> >>for me if I were to download a copy of the same
> show which has been made
> >>available by someone else?  I fully understand the
> issue as presented by
> the
> >>MPAA where they say that because it's made
> available, anyone can get it
> and
> >>it's without permission from the copyright holder,
> and that the
> advertisers
> >>get cheated. But it's missing the point.
> >>  
> >>
> >No you're missing the point it's against the law. 
> That's it, end of 
> >story game over.  By sharing shows, movies, CDs you
> only serve to 
> >encourage more draconian measures.  We've already
> got the broadcast bit 
> >thanks to shows being shared / fears of them being
> shared.
> No, that wasn't my point.  Try to observe before you
> spit.
> Sharing copyrighted material is against the law,
> yes.
> Downloading copyrighted material you've already paid
> for, is a bit
> different.
> You yourself are not bypassing any copy protection. 
> You yourself are not
> breaking any laws by obtaining a backup copy of
> something you've already
> paid for.
> The DMCA does not take that right away from you.  It
> only makes it illegal
> for you to take the step which removes the copy
> protection.  Once it has
> been removed by someone else, you yourself are not
> violating any laws by
> using that copy as your backup copy, because you are
> allowed to have a
> backup copy, provided you still are in posession the
> original copy you paid
> for.
> >> Sharing movies and music is a little different
> than sharing tv shows that
> >>are broadcast on free network television.
> >>  
> >>
> >No it's exactly the same, a copyrighted work for
> which you have no right 
> >to redistribute.
> Sure, sharing them is just as illegal, but
> downloading somebody elses share
> is not illegal, if you had full opportunity to
> legally make a copy on your
> own (such as using a VCR or Tivo) from a free
> broadcast.  If it was a DVD
> rip, you would still be within your rights to
> download it IF, and ONLY IF
> you already own a legitimate copy of the same DVD.
> >> Also, please mind your manners.  This is not the
> only time you've been
> rude
> >>here.  Your first reply to me was rather rude as
> well.  This is a
> >>"discussion", not a pissing contest.  Calling
> people idiots is completely
> >>uncalled for, and so is having a nasty overall
> attitude.
> >>  
> >>
> >I make my living off of intellectual property. 
> People who think it's
> >hunky dory fine to download movies, music and tv
> shows off the net piss 
> >me off.  The knowledge that in a few years anything
> worth recording will 
> >not be recordable in the US because of those same
> people causing the 
> >broadcast bit to be turned on for everything pisses
> me off even more.  
> >So if I come off as nasty GOOD!   I mean to be.  If
> you're one of the 
> >group that are walking all over copyright law you
> ARE and idiot because 
> >you're screwing things up for everyone else because
> you're to stupid to 
> >think beyond "I can get stuff for free" and
> consider the bigger picture.
> >
> What's the better solution here?  Giving up your
> rights and pointing the
> finger at someone and blaming them for causing the
> rights to go away, or
> fighting the system that takes the rights away? 
> Contact your
> representative.  Call your Senator.  Vote.  Do what
> you can to make sure
> laws like the DMCA are removed and that your rights
> are not trampled on.
> The Supreme Court ruling in the Betamax case of 1982
> is our golden ticket.
> The same exact argument used in that ruling applies
> to digital media.  What
> we need is a test case.  Something which brings the
> constitutionality of the
> DMCA in front of the Supreme Court, so that they can
> strike it down.
> Sure, the broadcast bit is a knee-jerk reaction to
> copying and filesharing,
> but a better solution is to actually uphold the
> existing laws, which
> guarantee consumer rights.  Special interests are
> the real "cause".
> Corporations looking out for their bottom line,
> spend millions annually on
> lobbying groups in D.C. Why?  Because these groups
> help limit consumer
> rights by lobbying OUR representatives, and thereby
> help the corporations
> protect their bottom line.
Think about this one:  Why would Corporations spend
millions lobbying if the consumers of their products
actually purchased legal copies.   They'd be making
their bottom line and everyone would be happy.

IMHO - this fight would not exist if people didn't
share, steal, copy, or otherwise acquire stuff they
didn't purchase.

> If you want to keep your rights to record, good! 
> Pointing fingers at people who couldn't care less
> what you think will get
> absolutely nothing done.  Treat the cause, not the
> symptom.  Copying is the
> symptom of overpriced CDs and DVDs.  Copying is the
> symptom of technology
> making it easier. 

This is flat wrong.. Copying is because people can get
away with and don't have to pay.  CDs and DVDs and all
other consumer goods are based on supply and demand. 
People (who don't steal or share media) are willing to
pay for the 19.99 for dvd. 
 Macrovision tried to stop analog
> copying.  Didn't work.
> The 5C bit will be hacked, believe me, it's just a
> matter of time.  So why
> not come down from the soap box and actually try to
> get something done?
> And, you would do well to not call people idiots
> left and right, because
> A. it makes you look foolish
> B. you don't know me or any of these people well
> enough to make that
> judgement
> C. further communication on mailing lists means not
> pissing people off and
> winding up on their kill filters, which will only
> cause you increased
> frustration (which from the sound of it, you can ill
> afford)
I completely agree here no one has the right or
privilege to personal attack on a forum like this. 

> Anyway, this discussion has gone completely awry,
> has nothing to do with the
> original discussion anymore (which wasn't even about
> anything illegal, if
> you'd bothered to read the original issue), and has
> thanks to you segwayed
> into personal attacks, which are usually the trait
> of someone losing an
> argument.
> Therfore, I'm bowing out.  Feel free to have the
> last word if it will make
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